Well sad to say that, but dh is worst than previous season with 4 sets… Feral druids with 4 sets can outdps DH in m + as overall. No need to tell about aother classses like warrior - monk - rogue etc, not even talking about warlocks - hunters…
Excuse me where is the balance ? I think this tier sets made the game even more broken than it was… According to me this is beyond double standarts…
I think you are thoughtlessly exaggerating. Havoc doesn’t pack the punch that Demo locks or hunters do atm but they are by far not the worst.
50k spikes in dmg every meta, 15k overall in some dungeons, high sustained single target dps… There’s no shortage of great things about Havoc right now.
Have u ever been in 22 + keys with decent ppl ? İf u didnt , you ll see the difference and deeply understand what I am talking about …
I checked your rio and the max keys u have done, so its so normal that u have no clue about what I am trying to say…
Our 4 tier set bonus is the worst atm along with BM hunters… But Hunters have the option to play MM or Survival that is great and op tier set bonuses…
Havoc DH is is the only class that sinful brand (venthyr) does the top damage on its dps list , that is pathetic according to me.
Tier sets are done by, ignorant / clueless ppl also.
Double standarts !
no flame dude but your highest achievement is for getting 15s done in time, you have no KSM and no Hero titles, so I would question the ‘I’m doing 22+ keys’ and the talking down on people.
The set bonus is indeed underwhelming compared to other classes (its essentially VoP from BFA but as a tier set) and it won’t beat a destro pressing 1 button with 4 set nor a survival hunter, but its certainly not the worst spec in the game. Not at all. And lets be real, as long as lock remains broken, and mage is always meta, there’s good chance for havoc/vdh because of 5% magic buff. Just simp the broken class gg.
All that said I don’t often (with exception of 4pc locks if people pull huge pulls around them) feel I end the dungeon much differently on dmg to all these ‘omg so broken’ specs. At least in this early stage. But being realistic, 20 keys+/- are fast fading into being nothing themselves.
That being said a feral druid will never out dps a good havoc in m+, their AoE is abysmal. Warrior is very strong agreed. WW has good AoE but lacks ST, rogue is fairly comparable but has a better toolkit generally speaking cos of the utility it brings.
Perform and people will invite you. But I haven’t had massive issues this season. In fact for the most part I’d say its easier this season cos of locks tuning, than it was to persuade people to invite a havoc when you could bring a WW or smth instead.
This is my untouched alt since 5-6 years thus I dont have any KSM or KSH on this toon.
I didnt mean to insult or look down on ppl, I just meant, the gap is getting bigger more and more on higher keys between other classes due to, unfair / double standart tier sets differences.
Sure they can. If the DH player in question has both hands tied behind their back and is trying to press keybinds with their nose. Even then, it’s debatable.
DH is middle of the pack, feral is bottom.
Would like to see your main claiming you are doing 22 with. Pretty please?
I haven’t done any M+ with 4pc yet, but with 2 piece I was slightly behind in overall dmg vs demonology/frost mage. DH havoc simply lacks the massive bursts they can do and keep up for much longer, and I doubt the 4pc will make much of a difference there. Perhaps getting 2 or maybe 3 more AoE sinful brands off in a dungeon will help, but I don’t get my hopes up.
When I’m doing the best I can with sinfulbrand and it renews at least 2 times, I’ll be able to get maybe 40k dps on a big pull, while the warlock is blasting at 80~120k and the frost mage around 40~50k dps as well.
The only upside is that I get a little less downtime as havoc vs these 2 specs, but with the CDR build on frost they actually have their cooldowns up much more often, especially in AoE scenarios. I’m basically only really ahead in ST dps.
i don’t think blizzard has the word balance in their dictionary when it comes to m+. i personally don’t get how players that play classes that are even in a worse spot than havoc aren’t stirring up a storm…but barely anyone pushes m+ compared to the number of total players. so…nobody cares eh?
i do not understand how we can just swallow 6-10k difference overall for almost every dungeon.
like it’s normal, for a class that has comparable ST if not better depending on the fight to just do more than 30% overall difference at the end of the dungeon. it completely removed my mood to do anything above 15/16 as even if play as best i can there will come a time when havoc will not be enough. 26-27 is what…29 last season? ofc we’re enough for these keys with 4set and higher ilvl.
lets see what happens at 31-33+. that will establish meta again, that will in turn make havoc uninvitable in any pugs above 25 unless you have 27 timed or whatever.
what’s the bloody point? 
Did you not look at the PTR forum when it was active? Do you never look at the druid forum? Feral druid is currently the worst AOE spec in the game. We’ve begged, pleaded, made suggestions, shouted, hurled abuse… ever since feral was hit with the massive nerf bat that knocked it from middle of the pack right back to the bottom. Even though much of the community was behind us, our complaints were mostly met with silence, and one tiny buff that felt like a patronising pat on the head and seemed like it was more intended to lose us community support if we carried on complaining - ‘you’ve been buffed already, shut up’ - than to actually make feral more viable.
There’s only so much yelling into the void you can do before you become completely burned out, and that’s where the majority of feral players are now. I guess I’m lucky in a way that my guild needed a DH for the raid team, so I’m (technically) maining havoc this season, even though my heart is with feral. Getting into any key as havoc is so easy after playing feral.
If we want to make the devs sit up and take notice, the complaints about spec balance need to come from across the board, not just from those at the bottom. And those in the middle of the pack (where havoc is at the moment) need to be demanding balance, not ‘my spec isn’t OP this season, need buffs’, which is what I see from so many havoc players. We also need to enlist the support of those currently at the top, which is a lot harder because destro lock players have had it rough and now they’re enjoying their chance to shine. I don’t begrudge them that, but if we’re to stand any chance of making the devs listen, the demands for balance need to come from all of us, not just those who are currently languishing at the bottom.
i’ve advocated since this expansion started that everyone should press whatever they feel like pressing and do comparable damage within reason by the utility they bring into a group.
whatever anyone enjoys should be fine and not a hindrance to the group.
blizzard is clearly of a different opinion, rerolling classes unless you’re a mage or rogue is their business model.
I’m afraid that’s very likely. Gearing a new character quickly costs gold, and tokens are a quick way to get gold if you don’t already have it (as well as buying a boost being a super quick way to level). There’s money in getting people to reroll every season.
Not sure I understand you, but I definitely think it’s good design to have to optimize certain aspects of your class’ damage profile. This is what differentiates good from mediocre players, etc.
That said Havoc spec is for sure “broken” as it’s a broken spec. It has no real role in m+, sure it can do ST and AoE, but it really lacks some oomph that defines it.
Rogue, warrior and DH basically fight for the same spot but I’d take a rogue over a DH anytime. DH just needs something defining other than Chaos Brand (which needs to go btw same with Monk’s mystic touch).
Our ST is very solid. Noone can deny that. Unfortunately for us:
I dont bring the ranges because… we are not bottom. But we are the bottom level of the average line. Not above the middle.
Just dropping this in here. Check warcraftlogs properly please.
I think after this weekend’s MDI you will probably go back to edit this post into saying:
“I was wrong”.
You are partially right though. Havoc is REALLY strong in most (not all) dungeons IF there’s a NF priest to simp the Meta CD.
My prediction is you’ll see teams switch between DH and Rogue between the dungeons. The other two dps are warlock and survival hunter.
Are you a client of a company?
Because it is impossible for the level of naivety that you hold to be based on the experience of playing mythic+
u said 50k every meta? DO U THINK MATE IS 1 MIN CD???
IT’S 4MINS AND 3MINS IN BEST TRY HARD WITH 4 SETS !
DID U SEE WARLOCKS AND HUNTERS ? DID U SEE MONKS? DID U SEE TANKS DID ALMOST DEMON HUNTER DMAG ? PLZ GO GET HELP
Sir, this is the 3th thread u bomb like this.
Please keep it too the already ongoing threads… You will only get the same replies anyway
DHs seem fine in m+. Easy class shouldn’t be the top dog.
If you’re not happy with your damage we can swap if you’d like!