Playing my shadow priest and I can’t believe how much more utility it has, it’s like there’s an answer for everything. Just looking at defensives alone SP has shield, self-heal, dispersion, desperate prayer, mass dispell, purify disease and vampiric embrace. The self-heal can get me back to full hp so fast. Meanwhile havoc has blur and darkness, which don’t even feel like they make a difference. So SPs are tankier while attacking from 40 yds away, something’s not right here.
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It’s not just utility, it’s even the rotation itself. Firstblood talent, making your AoE ability one of the main ST damage dealer, honestly no matter what talent you use the rotation is bare-bone, even back in Legion.
I love the class fantasy but a gameplay like that can’t entertain me for more than 2 expansions (with massive breaks). Even with gliding or double Mario jump, it just doesn’t seal the deal.
A melee class needs defensives to survive, and havoc used to have that baked in passively with leech and blade dance dodge. They took that away without giving anything in return, so the spec feels like a sitting duck now.
Havoc is fine. Not every class needs to be super complicated.
With soul rending we passively gain 5% leech, and 25% in meta.
Besides you can talent for extra buttons
Felblade, Glaive Tempest, Netherwalk, Essence Break, Fel Eruption and Fel Barrage.
So no, we have enough as it is.
How having 1 or 2 more skills added in the base rotation, to make it less boring, is complicated gameplay ?
Right now everybody do the same thing : Glaive Tempest/Eyebeam + Blade Dance (if you took First Blood) on cooldown, demon’s bite + chaos strike spam.
The only « complex » class would be monk because you need to follow specific sequences to max your DPS.
Otherwise none of the classes are difficult or too complex to play.
Dont talk about fine if you do zero relevant content.
Thanks.
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They could’ve solved that if they added separate skills when they removed the passive defensives.
But now, blizzard just removes. And then they act surprised when the players rage.
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Almost none of those are worth using. Fel Eruption doesn’t work on most raid mobs.
Felblade isn’t an extra button because if you take that you go Demonic Blades, which loses Demon Bite.
Havoc has a lot more mobility than spriest which can save your skin more often than a def.
Blur’s cd is under a min with cds, you shouldn’t need more than that ever, unless you need an immunity which havoc has and spriest doesn’t.
Self healing isn’t so important in group content unless its passive or instant, spriest and havoc have the best passive heals in the game I think (vamp touch and dev plague both self heal). Spriest wins instant heals with desperate prayer. Vamp embrace is nice on sustained damage.
Spriest brings group utility in mass dispel, purify and mind soothe but havoc brings darkness and cage. Also fortitude vs chaos brand.
Havoc has plenty of utility, and with spriest longer cds on most I would give havoc the edge.
DPS rotation spriest is much much much better on ST without question, I fall asleep raiding as havoc. However aoe rotation I would say havoc is a lot more fun, big aoe spells on short cds, it’s not complex but its satisfying. Spriest aoe rotations are overcomplicated and clunky. A lot of different priority lists based on group sizes and casting while channelling makes you completely immobile.
Yes they did and it sux, now as havoc you need to see what kind of mob it is etc the blade dance dodge needs to come back immo
It could a 30 seconds cd if people shred through it like it’s saran wrap it doesn’t matter. When a fire mage or boomie is bursting me down I honestly can’t tell the difference between having blur up or not.
Havoc has the worst self healing in the game bare maybe warrior. You can talent into 5% leech, for comparaison rogues can talent into 10% leech, hunters can have 10% by just choosing a pet of the right family. The same talent give you 25% more while in meta, which is a 4min cd and your main offensive cd so you aren’t supposed to use it defensively anyways. Not to mention that taking this talent locks you out of your immunity which is on the same talent row.
Havoc dh is the only dps with 0 on demand healing, even warriors at least have victory rush or something I don’t remember the name.
Wut ? Ok let’s break it down, we got imprison which fair enough is good (although other classes have an incap), darkness which is useless since it’s nerfs. Currently mythic raiding and never have I been asked to go drop darkness for the tank. Not to mention that the pvp talent that makes it an actually good defensive doesn’t even work on allies. And finally chaos brand, which would be good for havoc if all tanks and their mothers didn’t play vengeance and so brought it anyways.
Ye I was very much talking about pve. I haven’t pvp’d on my dh this expac so I won’t pretend I know whats going on there.
Passive healing, as in healing while spending all your gcds on maxing dmg. If you don’t need netherwalk dh passive heals are pretty much as good as it gets.
Cage is better than most incaps cos it keeps mobs out of combat. The chaos brand tank problem is the same as the fortitude healer problem.
Also
Mage o/
Netherwalk is infinitely more useful in pve than leech. It can actually save your butt which is way more valuable than the tickle heals you get from leech (again half as much as what a rogue gets with a talent or a hunter can get baseline). In pve the healing is so small it either doesn’t matter because we are in low damage part of the fight where your healers got you covered, or if we are in a high damage of the fight it’s not going to save you whereas an immunity could. Not to mention that leech is useless if you aren’t dealing damage, so if any mechanics make it so you take a lot of damage while not being in range then it’s pretty much dead.
Only with a pvp talent.
Still a problem though, you can’t say brand is amazing havoc utility when 99% of the time you don’t even need a havoc dh for it.
Altertime.
Either way its an immunity or 25% leach most of the time, you spend most your time in demon form in pve. Both are very strong.
Cage keeps npc mobs out of combat while paralysis, poly, ice trap etc do not. It enables skips in m+.
Altertime is powerful but not an on demand heal. It’s preemtive, it’s used in the same way a dmg reduction is.
That’s staight up false. Meta is a 4 min cd, the longest cd on a main “rotational” offensive cd. And with nerf to demonic you only 6 secs of it by eye beam, and since they moved first blood to the same row as cycle of hatred you can’t take it anymore to get more beams. Not to mentionned a lot dhs run momentum instead of demonic anyways.
Even while running demonic in a raid fight I usually get two metas (sometimes even one if I have to hold it for hero) and around 18ish beams so that’s around 2 minutes 30 (again assuming I can meta a second time which is not always the case). And you have to keep in mind that I am using this offensively, to do damage. I am not popping meta because I am in danger and need to heal up, so most of the time the healing goes to waste unless a bursting phase happens at the same time than a high damage one which is very rare. Also a lot of this time is spent in short 6 seconds intervals, which agains I am using offensively as I need to beam on cd, so unless I am luck and it corresponds to a phase where I am taking a lot of damage it is wasted.
I thought you meant it didn’t break on cc, fair enough but havoc is far from being the only one able to do that. Priest have mind sooth, rogues have sap. Havoc also just happens to compete a lot with rogues in m+ comps as you usually have only room for one melee dps and rogues almost always wins out because it does higher damage and also brings shroud, which is a unique rogue utility.
True, but it is pretty easy to use as a self heal. In a scripted pve encounter you know when you are going to take damage, so you can use altertime preemptively to effectively heal up the damage you take. Not to mention that mages aren’t exactly suffering in the defensives categories like dh with things like cauterize, block, triune ward, shields.
Looking at top logs its high 50%s on fights with no downtime. I thought i’d be higher tbh. If its 25% its an average of 10%, still good. No one times offensive cds to leech for def, I’m just pointing out you have good passive self heals.
Rogues dungeon utility is insane. Mages survivability also insane.
Frankly I find my SP easier to play than havoc, optimized.
Thought 100% higher learning curve on SP vs DH.
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