I remember reading that we would find out the true motive for the lantern in the shadowlands.
What do you think? Could Sylvanas want to enslave the Val’kyr created by Odyn not to make more Forsaken but to force them to take souls to the Maw instead of to the Halls of Valor?
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Valid point and it works whatever the state of machine was back then. If it was broken Valkyrs “steals” souls from the Maw so it’s a good think to control them. Sylvanas could have a cut to be raised as Forshakens.
What I think is when she was made a warchief she was genuinely surprised and she went to Stormheim looking for answers. Helya was willing to give her answers, in exchange for something. I think the deal with the lantern was more in favor of Helya than Sylvanas.
I think they didn’t specify if the plan to become warchief was her plan also or only Jailors plan, we also don’t know how much knowledge-information Jailor shares with Sylvanas in general.
From the Three Sisters comic I understood that she was actually proud to be Warchief and to finally get that recognition in the Horde after all those years. Yes, I know the book says something else, but really it’s hard for Blizzard to make up their mind about anything.
I think at this point she was like what the heck is going on, as she doesn’t seem the type that would go like “oh okay your spirits told you to make me Warchief, cool cool”. I think she was intrigued and interested to find out the reason behind it. That’s what took her to Stormheim.
I’m more interested in her Valkyrs though. What exactly made them pledge their lives to Sylvanas? Why were they in the Maw? Why was she so important that she needed to stay alive? Are they the Jailer’s servants? She couldn’t have simply gone with their plan without knowing what’s the trick behind it, because there’s always a trick. Are these Valkyrs related to Stormheim or Helya in any way?
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For the Valkyrs my speculation is they don’t rely serve Sylvanas.
“When their mistress beckons, nine ravens take flight. Each seeks a prize to earn her favor.”
“The lord of ravens will turn the key.”
If the valkyrs are the nine ravens they might have a mistress(Sylvanas) and a lord(?)
Entering the maw suggests that they knew that they could get out. The Jailor wanted Sylvanas to the Maw then send her back and the Valkyrs serve the jailors plans from the start?
My speculation is that Sylvanas brought back the lord of ravens/boy king/Arthas with her in dormant state. The reason she is behaving like Arthas in BfA is that Arthas was awakened and he offered us the second lie.
“Three lies. Da first one been told.
Bound by dat throne? No. Free. Free!
Da next gonna come soon. Maybe dey see dis one.
Other hammers here now. Dey talk and talk bout Argus. Bout da one dat got wakened. Bout great victory dat our enemy not even notice.”
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That’s definitely an interesting theory, never thought about it that way. Valkyrs serving the Jailor is what I think as well. And it is mentioned that she saw Arthas when she died. The possibility of her bringing him back doesn’t seem too far fetched to be honest.
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He has reveled himself to Delaryn in the warbringers cinematic.
The foolish slide is to create the acoustic hint “I remember a fool/I remember a fall”(the fall or Arthas). The last think we saw in the flashback was Sylvsnas raised as a banshee in Arthas control.
“Now you understand” We and Delaryn know Sylvanas story, there was nothing new there nothing to understand. Arthas revels himself and the “Now you understand” is his line. Thats the reason Delaryn is shattered and the first thing she says is “i grieve for you”(for Sylvanas) and not “I pity you”.
The Sladowlans cinematic is all Arthas.
“A usurper sits on a frozen throne” thinking Bolvar as usurper fits Arthas supporters. Sylvanas shouldn’t care.
“But no king rules forever” Sylvanas wasn’t there when Arthas died using the same line is coincidence or hint?
“to wield so much power” The crown is probably the most hated object for Sylvanas but the line was delivered like a kid drooling for his favored candy, You must have tasted the candy to know its your favored.
That’s a way out for Sylvanas. Contrary to the forums I don’t think they wrote their most popular character the way they did without planing a way out from the start.
Oh wow. You are good mate. I will screen shot this and if it comes out true I will crown you Prophet Vonen and build you a statue. Do you accept gold or other valuable goods as offerings ? xDD
I have so many questions now, I don’t know where to start 
But also don’t wanna take this thread too far off topic. I would like to discuss this theory more.
The story involving val’kyr is rather vague.
First of all, why would they join Sylvanas in the first place? It is known that after she jumped off the Ice Crown whatever she saw made her care about avoiding the death at all costs. So the deal with the val’kyr makes perfect sense - instead of Sylvanas, val’kyr will take her place.
Why would val’kyr want it? Now this part is where it all gets strange. On paper, they wanted freedom, whatever that means. But still, if they take the place of Sylvanas, they would risk spending eternity in the Maw. The story would be simple if we could make a connection, like “Helia promised val’kyr that they will be fine, so they are ok with this role because they know that the nine will avoid the worst fate”. Except when it comes to fulfilling their part of the bargain, val’kyrs are not necessary happy with what they got into. When it was time to bring back Sylvanas for the 2nd time, one of val’kyrs, Arthura, did not want to die to bring Sylvanas back. And if not for the fact they were bound by the pact, they would not do it. Why hesitate and be afraid if they would be so sure taking the place of Sylvanas won’t be fatal for them? Do they suspect that they are just a tool used once again?
Now if you take a look at their later actions, Kyra raises Derek because Sylvanas makes her do it. And after the death of her sister, Signe outright states
There are so few of us left now.
So do they really trust into this pact after all? Or is there enough doubt in them to consider looking for a way to not fulfill their pact? Also, can they do it?
You see, the very first time Sylvanas dies, only 1 val’kyr is enough to bargain her out of the Maw. Next time it already requires 3. Unless it is an afterthought or a mistake, there are only 3 of the dark val’kyr left. So, it is not even certain if it is possible for them to raise Sylvanas anymore. Perhaps when Tyrande killed Brynja that also made the pact impossible to fulfil anymore.
So what it is the future of the remaining 3 dark val’kyr? I am not sure about that. We have some hints at them being devoted to the pact. But if they already passed the point when 3 val’kyr was enough to raise the Sylvanas, now she might not even care about the remaining val’kyrs. As well as val’kyr might not be happy as they realise what they got into.
Edit: if Sylvanas realises 3 val’kyr is not enough to come from the death again, that makes perfect sense for her to try to force Eyir to give her more. And it could be an interesting plot point in the future.
Also there are lesser val’kyrs, who can’t resurrect Sylvanas, and their origin in unknown prior to Shadowlands.
That’s about all I can tell. Of course there is my head canon where I speculate that there are all the elements in the story needed for val’kyr to leave Sylvanas (there might actually be a way under some conditions, cause Genn, but that dude would do something only for alliance), and they might be fine with not being a tool for once. And I think it would be an interesting situation if the story goes full circle and those who were forced by Arthas to serve him them, would now make a choice to follow his sister. IMO that would add to the phrase “I wish to prove worthy of the name Menethil” some extra strong spices. Maybe they were just in a cycle, used by Lich king, used by Helia, used by Sylvanas. Maybe there is some hope in the future for them too.
edit: maybe scrap that part about being used by Helia. Sylvanas made the deal with her later than the deal with dark val’kyr.
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Whoever makes that bargain is also the one who wants her alive at any cost. At this point is sounds like the Jailer. From what info we have so far it sounds like the Jailor has forced them somehow to serve her.
It would make sense. He pulls her soul into the Maw and he makes the Valkyr serve her.
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Just a minor addition about dark val’kyr. According to the Edge of Night story, the reason why they joined Sylvanas was because they looked into her memories and saw her as someone they could follow. However, what they saw was just before she jumped off the Ice Crown and met the Jailer.
So the 2 questions are still there:
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Why they never tried to interact with anyone else? Could it be that through their connection with the helm of domination they were also influenced by its master to look for a very specific person to follow?
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If they later just talk about the pact they have to obey, and not Sylvanas, could that be a sign of a doubt in the choice they made? After all, somehow Arthura was already not too happy to sacrifice herself. Besides, there is no freedom for them. Sylvanas changed quite a bit after WotLK after all. Nowadays she is not who they met back then.
Edge of night is open to interpretations. Did Sylvanas compelled to kill herself? Do the Valkyrs realy serve Sylvanas? Did Sylvanas know about the
Jaiolor back then? I hope we find out in Shadowlands.
could pretty much also be that the valkyrs server the jailer, and they totaly set up sylvanas.
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It could be that both sides were dragged into it by the Jailer. I had a conversation recently which saw had the following part:
Maybe spoiler from BtS
person 1: “He was the warchief, she had to obey” [about Sylvanas going away from Varian]
p 2: That’s what she thought of the events, at least. The author portrays her own thoughts. Unless her own memory betrayed her for whatever reason, there was no contemplation of disobedience.
Which reminded me about this part from Edge of Night:
Sylvanas shook her head, cleared her vision. These were her memories, but she wasn’t remembering them. They were being pulled from her. Pulled from her by the Val’kyr. The mute spirits hovered around her, regarding her silently.
So not only what val’kyr learned was about the pre-Cata version of Sylvanas when she has concern for the forsaken and more or less wanted to lead them, which is a very different person from the one with whom they ended up with. But the whole situation played out is a very peculiar way.
The dark val’kyrs were bound to the helm of domination. The actual owner of it is likely to be the Jailer. And they do not approach Bolvar, nor anyone from the ebon blade, both of which know plenty about life and death, and death knights with val’kyrs knew each other rather well. For whatever reason they approached the exact person who needed “immortality”, at the exact moment when she became someone who needed immortality, the moment when they could not exactly know the details of what would wait them if they swap their places with the sould of Sylvanas when she dies (which is to be thrown into the Maw), only about what happened before.
And what happens next? Once they move away from the Ice Crown, the closest to the shadowlands place, players could see the hesitation from val’kyr, who just recently “willingly” suggested this deal, and realisation that they have no other choice but to obey the one with whom they made the pact.
Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I think that the way the story was told leaves some place for the developers. Dark val’kyrs could work for the Jailer. They could be made by Arthas under the influence from the Jailer since he [the Jailer] was already with Helia and there was knowledge about what val’kyrs could be capable of. So the nine could be tricked by the Jailer to be a guarantee that Sylvanas will stay alive for the time that she needs to stay on Azeroth. Val’kyrs could be portrayed like those who fully agrees with the direction of Sylvanas, but there are setups to show that they got nothing from the pact while suffering all the consequences. Not to mention that Sylvanas probably does not need them anymore, and they saw in her actions to Eyir that Sylvanas needed more val’kyr who obey her, not to give them any “freedom”.
So yeah, there are different ways for the story to unfold. From killing the remaining of the nine, or leaving them to Sylvanas / Nathanos, all the way to severing the pact and playing the “worthy of the name Menethil” card where followers of Lich King, who were forced do be like that by Arthas, could make a choice to follow his sister.
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