Can someone please explain to me how this works, I thought Quel’dorei was somewhat part of the Alliance, but ever since Pre-PAtch Shadowlands I see people Roleplaying as High Elf and Quel’dorei in Orgrimmar, not gonna mention Stormwind is 60% High Elf now, but someone explain to me, how all this works, is it weird to RP as Quel’dorei as Horde, or is it perfectly fine now?
I suppose it kind of depends on how or why the individual character is there in the first place. As far as hardline faction lines are drawn, the Quel’dorei are officially affiliated with the Alliance.
But that doesn’t mean the Quel’dorei as a people are some sort of singular hivemind with a single line of political thought.
Some high elves could be merchants whose wares are exclusively sought after by goblins for whatever reason (make something up!), and some quel’dorei could have defected from the Alliance military after realising their long-lost family is alive and well in Silvermoon.
Or maybe they just align with the Horde politically, on a philosophical level. More red than blue. That kind of thing.
The whole ‘race war’ aspect of WoW is a very basic way of looking at a setting, I think, and I wish more “migrant” NPCs were represented in-game. It’d make the world a little more vibrant. ^^
(Edit: Armoury pls. I’m not naked, I swear. I’ve never been naked in my whole life!)
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The lady doth protest too much, methinks 
Technically quel’dorei aren’t considered a legitimate nation, rather a race, cause you know…blood elves aka sin’dorei are quel’dorei. Kael’thas only renamed them as a nation to honor those who fell during the scourge invasion. Majority who refused to follow him after he introduced them to fel as another source of energy, were told to leave the kingdom. But I wouldn’t say they are strictly alliance.
Which would make them a blood elf, even if their eyes are blue. Because there is no racial divide between high / blood elves, they are the same race; the difference is entirely political, and the stance of high elves is usually Alliance and / or neutrality, such as the Argent Crusade or the Kirin Tor. The blood elves stand with the Horde, usually, or at the very least support the state of Quel’Thalas.
Or simpler put - call yourself a high elf in Orgrimmar and you mark yourself as an entity neutral to the Horde at best and hostile at worst; usually the latter.
RPing a high elf as Horde does not work unless under rather explicit circumstances; best outside of larger cities as a member of neutral organisations, simply because to be Horde, you would be a blood elf.
Ehhh, yes and no. I’d say that’s a slight oversimplification and that there’s room for nuance in this area as well. Sure, there are no racial differences and no physiological weirdness separating one from the other (eye-colour is the main thing, but that’s up in the air at the moment).
But that’s not how language works. Someone might refer to themselves as a high elf as a short-hand in conversation to emphasise the fact that they’ve defected from the Alliance. Or out of a sense of pride that they didn’t join the Horde until after they got rid of Kael’thas/Garrosh/[Insert-divisive-political-leader-here].
A lot of cultural and mental gymnastics could factor into labeling yourself as a High Elf. It doesn’t automatically have to mean you’re on opposite ends of a swordfight. Heck, a character could even be using the label in the wrong context, in-character.
I appreciate the emphasis on the fact that there is no REAL difference between the two. Though I tend to take issue with the black and white, With Us or Against Us Bush-era rhetoric that tends to permeate these kinds of discussions.
Maybe I’m putting too much stock in Warcraft as a dumb fantasy setting for babies, or in the roleplayers that inhabit it. I just don’t think things like political identities and labels are usually that simple. ^^
There’s room for nuance, and I’d ask everyone to consider that before automatically jumping down other people’s throats for “doing the bad RP”, as some of us are wont to do.
(Also, the nudity has been rectified. Thanks, Armoury.)
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You lost me there, there’s no discussion to be had, they would be a kill on sight on known Horde territory. This cannot even be called into question since the new novel released. Without much spoilers, there are some Alliance characters that trespass on Horde territory and everyone treats the incident as if the trespasser’s life would justifiably be forfeit.
No high elves, aside from pilgrimages to the Sunwell can ever set foot on Horde territory. Kill on sight immediately or ignore as loller. Period.
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Anyone who roleplay as a Quel’dorei or High Elf in the Horde is doing a misinterpretation of the lore. Since there’s apparently no visual distinction between Blood Elves and High Elves now that the first have blue eyes, the way you call yourself and your loyalties define what you are:
Alliance: High Elf. Horde: Blood Elf
That would be Lorthremar’s doing, exiling the non-fel abiders. It was to keep the peace and not start a civil war with the remainder of his people.
Alanysse is right on the money, Thalassian
Elves (to give it an overarching term) who self identify as high elves then at the very least they are saying they’re not Horde
So why are they in a Horde capital?
It’s weird to see, as well as there being a lot of animosity between High and Blood elves (see Isiljins post above, high elves blame blood elves for the deaths of Mana starved exiles)
I have already said my piece here, but I’m still going to reiterate that a lot of the discourse seems to be focused on large, sweeping generalisations instead of individual characters.
Statements akin to “X People did Y once upon a time, so that means all of X are Z,” are not super helpful when talking about motivations of individual characters.
Maybe I’m used to a certain degree of thoughtfulness in my roleplaying and the people I do it with, but you can find a multitude of reasons why someone who might identify as a high elf could spend time in Horde territory.
Maybe they’re an ambassador, or a Dalaran expert consultant sent in to clean up an arcane pipe leak. A member of a largely recognised neutral guild who has dealings with either factions - a trade union, that kind of thing. A freaking courier, even.
Make something up!
I just like to think there’s more to WoW than the faction war. There are civilians who might lead sheltered lives, civilians whose families were affected by the wars in different ways, and I’m sure there are individuals who go to Silvermoon and still consider themselves High Elves.
Could be a thing where they simply don’t like the ‘blood elf’ term, since they associate it with the fallen king. Who knows? People are strange some times.
In conclusion, you just need to put a teensy bit of thought into why your character reasons the way they do. If you’re going to roleplay something that’s bordering on the edges of the “RP Overton Window”, you’re going to have to put some work in, unfortunately.
(Side note: Civilians forfeiting their lives as soon as they cross the border is silly - what happened to Honour? Is any male elf between the age of 15 and 6,000 considered an enemy combatant? The Warcraft universe needs to grow up, if that’s the case.)
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yes but by calling yourself “Quel’dorei” instead of “Sindorei” it goes against everything your people stand for. it goes against the fallen people during the invastion.
To be fair, the majority of the high elves whom were actually exiled from Quel’Thalas settled in Quel’Lithien. The majority of whom have since in turn become wretched. For some reason.
Okay, but if this organisation is neutral, why would they risk diplomatic relations by sending a member of theirs who, by virtue of choosing to live as a high elf, is a political statement in and of himself? Why would they not send an orc, a troll or an undead? To send someone that openly claims to be a high elf is to send a politically charged message, a statement questioning the legitimacy of the Thalassian state itself.
I mean, we’re talking about Thalassian elves here. Where would you find one that lived a sheltered life? It doesn’t really matter where you were, the Third War had such an effect on your very people that you know at least one person that died to the Scourge war machine, likely more. And you’d always carry the hunger for arcane magic within you. But if they call themselves high elves in Silvermoon, they simply wouldn’t be allowed - they can conduct pilgrimages to the Sunwell, but little more.
Yes, which is why most of those who reject the term ‘blood elf’ also choose to live within the Alliance, or in fewer cases, neutral organisations such as the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade.
Do civilians forfeit their lives as soon as they cross the border? Of course not, but they do forfeit the chance of avoiding hostile encounters if caught. What happened to honour? Well, nothing, it’s still there - no one has the same definition of it. Quite a few care nothing for it, but you needn’t be an enemy combatant to be considered a hostile. Nor can anyone truly know if you are naught but a civilian, which does not make you invulnerable whilst in territory hostile to you.
Way to get passive aggressive and call everyone who doesn’t agree with you in a discussion dumb, fren. Good job, you may applaud yourself for your self important quip trying to discredit every other opinion in the thread.
The Kirin Tor or Argent Crusade would be smart enough not to risk a diplomatic incident by sending a member of their order with very distinctly opposing political opinions to a capital city.
That’s a very clear political statement in and of itself, knowing the history of the term.
If there was a war between two nations and one guy from nation A entered nation B, shouted their origins but told the guards they’re civilian so not hostile, do you really think they’d be just fine? No, they’d be arrested and interrogated for possibly being a spy.
That’s the amount of sense a high elf in Orgrimmar would make.
Oh, that wasn’t my intent. Sorry it came across that way.
The underlying idea behind the statement was that maybe, maybe, some of the hostility toward these roleplaying ideas that push the boundaries a little bit comes from just seeing it done rather recklessly.
From people who don’t put in the extra work.
Maybe you’ve encountered high elf roleplayers who are openly hostile inside of Horde cities, maybe even brandishing weapons at people, expecting no consequences? And maybe that colours your perspective on this topic a little bit.
Whereas I haven’t encountered high elves on a regular basis since I tend to roleplay in a smaller circle of people, so as a result, I’m not as sceptical to these things.
The people I tend to interact with would probably approach this with the aforementioned thoughtfulness and mainly in special cases. And that colours my perspective as well.
Sorry for the misunderstanding there. I should’ve elaborated, and I totally see how it could’ve been read as snarky elitism on my part.
I feel like we’re running the risk of just ending up in a circular discussion that never ends, though. I think we simply have a fundamental disagreement on just how xenophobic the setting is.
Maybe Valeera Sanguinar is under the threat of death every time she walks into a city - any city, seeing as her political identity is a thought crime?
Maybe.
That’s just not how I see it.
Scepticism? Racism? Interrogations by guards?
Reasonable. Could totally be incorporated into the roleplay. Should, even. I doubt a high elf trader or a specialist arcanist consultant have had the easiest, chillest experience while openly disagreeing with the overarching Horde government.
My overall point, though, is that political dissent in a population is to be expected.
Labels are weird. Identities are strange. People can have different ethnic, political and cultural identities that they all apply to themselves at the same time in real life. And some of them actively conflict. That’s interesting.
I’d love to explore that part of the human condition with a high elf roleplayer some day. So I’d be totally opposed to nipping this kind of thing in the bud.
If someone roleplays a character who calls themselves a high elf near me, I’d love to hear their story. Why do they stick to that identifying label? Why are they aligning themselves with the Horde politically, but still rhetorically distancing themselves?
Surely, there’s a story there.
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The wording sure looked like that way, but fair enough. No offense intended, then.
The thing is, people can RP high elves all they like. In areas where they can reasonably venture to, while declaring themselves high elves. I’m also all for Alliance spies telling people they’re actually blood elves with blue eyes, but those have to be willing to get caught and accept consequences within reason.
Being a high elf and openly admitting to it would be enough to get arrested in any Horde city. As I said above, in WoW’s universe, trespassing to the opposite faction’s territory is a severe crime.
You’re assuming both factions treat the opposite faction’s race’s members the same way. That would be incorrect under King Anduin’s rule. Alliance going into Horde territories would be far less tolerated than in reverse (although I’d still call the latter dangerous).
Valeera is also a very, very special case. She was one of Anduin’s dad’s best friends, of course she’s welcome in his city.
As family friendly as Blizzard is trying to make the lore now, the fact is that the entire setting is based on extremely racist politicians and commonfolk being just straight up unable to get along and have been waging a cold (and sometimes all out) war for decades now.
I think you misunderstand my dismissal for Horde high elf RP for not acknowledging high elf RP in general. Nah, I’m totally fine with high elves. But they’re an Alliance race. You’ll see just as many high elves in Orgrimmar as you see night elves, gnomes, draenei or dwarves. Anyone trying to RP otherwise needs to accept arrest and possible character death.
Otherwise, in neutral or Alliance territory, high elves are just fine, I actually quite like them and have been interacting with a couple and have positive experiences so far.
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It depends if you mean “Quel’dorei” in a political or ethnic way.
Ethnically there is no real difference between Blood and High elves (not sure about the changes in Void elves, so i’m leaving them out)
Sin’dorei and Quel’dorei are the same people with the only difference being the political affiliation.
And After the Sunwell was restored this border was watered down a lot, with Quel’dorei being allowed to Visit the sunwell and return to Silvermoon.
So there may be some Highelves who never took Demonjuice living with the Horde now.
But they would be pretty rare, considering that even after the Sunwell was restored the Silver Covenant was exceptonally vindictive towards their cousins in Silvermoon, and took part in the purge of Dalaran after the Bloodelves were forced to Help Garrosh steal the Focussing Iris for the Manabomb.
TLDR: The Border is mostly arbitrary and political and there are propably Quel’dorei on both sides now.
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Well, Lor’themar did try. Quite many times, his last attempt was shortly after beginning of Cataclysm. And as usual he was denied. Blood elves didn’t like their spot in the horde and never wanted it. I am not sure why Lor’themar did not call the quel’dorei back to Quel’thalas after Kael’thas was proven to be yet another traitor. But that’s that. Alliance refused his pleas to join them. So Lor’themar reached out to the horde securing his position within it’s ranks properly by participating in mana-bomb creation. Mind you blood elves did not drop it on Theramore, they only created it. And they did it cause Garrosh told them to. So technically Silver Covenant has nothing to complain about, this could be prevented if Alliance did listen. Which they did not.
If this refers to his short story, then no, it took place before WotLK; as we see when he interacts with the high elves of Quel’Lithien, the Sunwell has only recently been restored.
He did offer to allow the high elves of Quel’Lithien back into Quel’Thalas; they are not Alliance, mind you, but they refused. He offered to have the Farstriders deliver them supplies, they refused. They refused because the Horde keep attacking them on the orders of Nathanos, they refused because they’d been forced to live years in exile in the Eastern Plaguelands. This is the only group of high elves he approached because they are the only high elves exiled from Quel’Thalas on his orders.
The Alliance didn’t refuse his negotiation efforts to have the blood elves re-join the Alliance; this happened during MoP, and it was only ceased because Jaina and the Silver Covenant decided to drive the blood elves out of Dalaran due to the Sunreavers having used Dalaranian, thus breaking Dalaran’s neutrality, resources to directly aid the Horde war effort against the Alliance. Varian was very much pissed at Jaina for her actions that drove the blood elves deeper into the Horde.
Which is to be expected, considering the Silver Covenant is a militant organisation dedicated to the singular purpose of not allowing the blood elves back into Dalaran and the ranks of the Kirin Tor. All while led by a woman whose only political clout in Dalaran is her marriage to the leader of the Kirin Tor, who himself supported the Sunreavers’ return.
Well, very few of them ever took the demon juice to begin with - that’d be the felblood elves that remain loyal to Kael’thas and the Legion until the showdown on Quel’Danas. But there would be more high elves living in the Alliance whose eyes have been turned green due to fel corruption.
Blood elves are high elves… and there is high elf portal mages in org. So you can rp as high elf in org.