High Elves in 12.1 💙

Community General Discussion
549

And they don’t need High Elves.

They need a therapist.

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550

Infused with fel after following kaetas into outland? Nah, let’s forget about it

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551

All Blood Elves were High Elves, not all High Elves are Blood Elves. Not hard eh.

High Elves were not exposed to fel thus not having the caractheristic green glow, not they did syphon mana from living creatures.

If a Blessing From Cenarius is enough of a difference, so is fel energy exposure. So they are untainted High Elves. Nice thanks for another point in favor for HE.

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552

Which is a moot point, since 


  • Green, denoting fel corruption. When the Sunwell was destroyed, the blood elf magisters rebuilt Silvermoon using demonic energies; living in proximity to this gave many blood elves fel-green eyes.[135] The corruption will fade eventually, but the process takes time.[62]
  • By the time of the war against the Primalists, enough years have passed for some blood elves’ eyes to return to their original blue color.[136][137]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Blood_elf#Eyes

[sad trombone]

Which would make the differences between a blood elf that has regained its blue eyes and a high elf _ n _ y p _ l i _ i _ _ l.

[drum roll]


 anyone?

[Whispers]: Psst! Check below for the answer!

However, a fraction of the high elves refused to rename themselves blood elves, and while they are physiologically the same race, the difference is only political.[15]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/High_elf

EDIT: Decided to make it a little easier for some, they seem to struggle with this detail.

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553

So you literally didn’t disproved anything of what I said and yet you strut around as of you did. Aahahhahah

Hopefully next you will reach the part of why the High Elves remained High Elves and the Blood Elves renamed themselves.

Keep going, I know its a struggle.

A bit sad that we are going trough the basic stuff again after all this time.

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554

I didn’t seek to disprove anything, I asked a question.

Feel free to answer the question.

The stage is yours.

What is the difference—if not political—between a blood elf who has had its eyes restored and returned to its former blue glow [as we now have had confirmed from Blizzard enough time has passed for] and a high elf?

Side by side you have a high elf and a blood elf, the latter having been restored due to enough time passing and has had the former corruption fade.

What separates them beyond political differences in present day?

555

No, you tell me why did the Blood Elves and High Elves split, since according to you we dont know the lore. Do elucidate us. Was it just political?

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556

I’ll gladly answer that question, as I have numerous times already!

It’s right here, a quote I’ve used far too many times now:

During the course of the Third War, the high elven kingdom was brought to the brink of annihilation when the death knight Arthas Menethil launched the Scourge invasion of Quel’Thalas. Approximately 90%[11] of their population was slaughtered by the undead.[12] Rallied by Ranger Lord Lor’themar Theron, second-in-command of the fallen Sylvanas Windrunner, 90% of the high elven survivors rejoined with Prince Kael’thas Sunstrider and renamed themselves “blood elves” or “sin’dorei” (children of the blood in Thalassian) in remembrance of their fallen brethren, no longer considering themselves high elves.[13] The blood elves then sought to unite and restore their people to the glory they enjoyed at the height of high elf civilization,[14] and have since retaken much of their land from the Scourge.[13]

However, a fraction of the high elves refused to rename themselves blood elves, and while they are physiologically the same race, the difference is only political.[15] Unwilling to lead a divided nation, Regent Lord Lor’themar exiled from Quel’Thalas those who refused to follow the ways of the blood elves,[16] while others chose to rejoin their former allies, arriving to a cold reception due to their previous secession.[2] Since high elves did not gather in any significant numbers and are a very small group of individuals, they are a rare sight across Azeroth, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[17][18]

As a people, the high elves are all but extinct: the remnants of the remnants of a fallen race.[19] They cannot even truly be said to have a culture, only a past filled with glory and regret.[2] Though they are scattered all over the world, without common opinions, goals, or any official leader,[2] Ranger General Vereesa Windrunner founded the Silver Covenant, a militant faction of high elves affiliated with the Alliance in Dalaran City. Following the Battle for Quel’Danas, Captain Auric Sunchaser of the Allerian Stronghold became the high elven representative at the restored Sunwell.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/High_elf

In fact, it is extremely tiring as it is the exact same quote I used at the very start of this thread.

And that is continuously fought against by all of you.

The writing is right there. We are agreed that the Warcraft Wiki is a reputable source.

That the information is correct and that it has confirmed sources.

And yet none of you can in any way say the words “Yes, the difference is only political! However, I’d still like to have them as a playable race.”

Absolutely unbelievable.

You bring feelings, wishes and belief manifestation to arguments where you’re faced with actual sources and confirmed words from the developers.

Anything can change in the future, that doesn’t mean it changes where we are right now. No amount of speculation changes what we do have on paper right now.

You refuse—at every turn—to accept the state of this race where it is right now.

As per the official sources, as per the latest information we have.

You want so badly for this obscure, niché little side-track of a racial trait to have the spotlight that you get lost in what you want something to be for what it is.

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557

The draining of mana from living beings to sate the addiction, a philosophical point, was the cause of the split. The living beings in question were primarly mana wryms though, essentially vermin.

The restoration of the Sunwell resolved the philosophical point, leaving only a political difference as those who rejected draining mana from living beings turned to the Alliance out of necessity.

Sahaan is correct though. A Blood Elf and an Alliance High Elf side by side are indistinguishable in any meaningful way. What you are citing are entirely subjective factors. You keep saying ‘it isn’t hard’ when you are asked to cite meaningful differences but you keep reverting to history lessons, and bad history lessons at that.

Highmountain Taurens have antlers. That isn’t much but is it at least something to point to when asking what the difference is. Dark Iron Dwarves have gray skin and firey beards. Mechagnomes are cybernetic. Nightborne have upswept ears and very dark skin tones and an arcane heritage.

So what is the difference you can point to? Even ONE meaningful difference on par with the other races in the game.

558

Amazing how you made such a long post cherry pickinking the quotes to avoid mentioning what actually caused the split.

Its impressive really. Dont let your feelings get in your way of facts.

True to both counts, but we cannot ignore that it happened, like the fel exposure aswell.

Just like a Void elf, or a LF dranei amd a regular dranei and a Man’ari in armor. It’s not a big con. If that was a bit of an issue we would not have Pandas, earthen and the dragon peeps.

And you keep reverting to moot examples, as i just demonstrated above.

Ill give you 2. Political and Cultural.

Funny how you guys keep trying to treat them as the same, when even in game blizzard keeps them as a separate. Keep reaching lads. Keep reaching.

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559

Then you provide the answer. What I have given you, which you refuse to comment on or acknowledge, is the link to the quoted texts on this topic and matter on Warcraft Wiki. Footnotes and sources included.

Are they wrong? All I’ve done is quote the page and provided the link. It’s not my text, I didn’t write it.

Is it wrong? Yes or no?

If yes, provide the correct reason and answer.

Preferably with a source.

An in-game text such as dialogue, a developer interview, a quest, a book, an official Blizzard page. Or don’t. But preferably something. All those people contributing to Warcraft Wiki are wrong, your argument would be why.

I told you a few replies above—the stage is yours.

What’s incorrect on this page?

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/High_elf

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560

Is that ever conveyed, though? Do we have a single example of a High Elf that rejoined the Blood Elves or are you operating off of headcanon?

For the record, the Quel’lithien Rangers have never been part of the Alliance (outside of the Second War, I guess) and still denied Lor’themar’s call for reunification on grounds of the Horde’s allegiance as well as the past crimes onto them. Unlike the Lodge of Quel’danil that joined officially in the Cataclysm - or those of Dalaran who never left it to begin with.

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561

How is it headcanon?

All Elves feed on the Sunwell save the likely exception of the Void Elves. The restoration of that Sunwell as a light-arcane energy source is important not only because it resolved the philosophical question of how to sate their addiction without the Sunwell but because it began infusing their bodies with light as well as arcane energy.

One of the more desperate points put forward by the pro High Elf folks when challenged to name a difference is ‘they were drinking fel energy’. This a gross exaggeration meant to infer a difference between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. It is also an argument that ends up hoisting itself by its own petard, as if you seek to argue differentiation based on short exposure to fel energy, then you are establishing that being infused by a certain type of magical energy is a criteria for judging whether differentiation has occured, as it has with the Void Elves.

But if both groups are being infused by the same energy source with the same type of magic, then there is no differentiation. There is instead the same people, infused with light energy and arcane energy.

That leaves only the political, and that is not enough.

562

You cite the use of facts whilst being at the forefront of a movment which seeks to impose their own headcanon on the game. That is both ironic and hypocritical.

Whilst you do accept the cause of the split, and the resolution of that division, you place far too much emphasis on the use of fel. The fel exposure was, for the most part, minor as the elves were exposed to fel energy through the presence of fel crystals throughout Silvermoon.

Do you think those High Elves stranded in Outland got away scot free in an environment saturated with fel energy that saw Orcs shift from brown, to green, to red? They maintained the blue eyes but logically they too were exposed to fel. We have blue eyed Blood Elves now who were exposed to fel in the past too, so this is clearly not unusual. Does any fel exposure compromise their status as High Elves?

Your examples of Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei are failures of course. Both races are infused with magical energy that distinguishes them from their parent race. Void Elves are infused with Void, Lightforged are infused with Light. That is the substantive difference. What is the substantive difference between Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves?

Your argument that you cannot tell them apart with armour is hypocritical given the obvious solution in that case is to wrap your void elf up in armour and pretend.

You haven’t demonstrated anything though. I asked for substantive differences in line with the other allied races. You didn’t provide any. You said you would give me two, even though in my question I deliberately pointed out the political was nowhere near enough. Which leaves the cultural, and that is even worse, as we have established repeatedly the Alliance High Elves do not have a different culture than the Blood Elves (even the Void Elves have made a better stab at it).

In other words, you have not demonstrated a single meaningful difference on the level of the other allied races that would justify Alliance High Elves. The lack of a meanignful difference is of course why Blizzard manufactured one with Void Elves.

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563

Because you’re arguing that the exiled High Elves returned to Quel’thalas and that the conflict has been resolved off-screen. When all of the information we have infers the exact opposite. Even in Midnight, there’s been a datamined spell two days ago with the High Elves arriving in Quel’thalas at the end of the main quest to assist with the fight. While establishing an Alliance-only haven in the south.

So I’m asking for some sort of source, where it’s been shown as such. Again, all you need to show me is one single High Elf that returned to Quel’thalas and I’ll be satisfied and agree that “OK, there’s precedent for what you’re saying.”

I’m not even talking about playable High Elves at this point - just curious about where you’re stating it as a matter of fact that the majority of High Elves came back and are now Blood Elves?

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564

Yes, it does.

Yet it would also make it the fifth elven variant for players to choose from (blood elves, night elves, nightborne and void elves being ingame now), so I can understand the argument.

If we’d racked up that many variants of a race that I didn’t care about in the slightest - let’s for the sake of argument say three or four kinds of gnomes - the idea of yet another variant would certainly annoy me.

Fortunately I care enough about elves to be a bit “meh” in this instance, but that doesn’t mean the argument can’t resonate with me.

You’ll have to explain what exactly makes my post come across as disingenuous.

To clarify, rather than quote your reply entire, one of the playable elven races not being a Thalassian elf, does not make it any less of an elf. Just a variant of the genus. So the point retains its merit to my eyes.

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565

I never argued that. I said the philosophical point had been resolved. I never said they went home afterwards, merely that what caused the original division had been corrected. I even pointed out that left solely the political divide, their continuing affinity to the Alliance.

This is a classic case of adding 2+2 and getting 5.

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566

Sixth, actually. We’re getting Harranir that are the “Wild Elves”.

The argument itself is kind of moot however, when you consider that 40% or more of the playerbase is playing some variety of Elf. Infact, I’d say that it’s a positive for adding more in, seeing how there’s a clear tangible demand for them. As opposed to other totally unique races that have between 0.5% and 2% players.

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567

It’s even funnier when we have this source as well.

Fel magic played no apparent role in the elves’ splintering; in fact, its use was hidden from most of the blood elves.[13]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/High_elf#Racial_offshoots

Yet it is, for some reason, the number one reason given in this thread.

But sure, I’m the clueless one.

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568

Of course it is. With magical infusion accepted as a point of differentiation, trying to prove the Blood Elves are fel corrupted (and the corollary, Alliance High Elves are not and thus ‘purer’) is a traditional argument.

Pointing out that the fel exposure was minor is always rejected. Rather than fel being used to sustain the spellworks behind the scenes, the Blood Elves were chugging it! They were eating it with their meals! They were drinking in pubs! They were injecting into their very veins! This is absolutist headcanon, the conception of what Blood Elves and High Elves are for pro High Elfers in contrast to what the game and world say they are.

And when you point out that both groups feed on the same sunwell and so both have been imbibing arcane and light energy for two decades now (five times longer than there was fel exposure), that’s always rejected. Particularly as light and arcane are seen as more positive energies than demonic fel.

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