narrows eyes
Indeed. ;_;
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The fact that the discussion has been going on that long is a statement of intent.
And the âmultiple instances of hypocrisyâ are a subjective interpretation warped by your own desires. As we established above, you wanted to give Humans to the Horde and Orcs to the Alliance. I thought adding an iconic Horde race like Blood Elves to the Alliance was a bad enough ask but you actually compounded it by saying THE most iconic races of each faction should go the other.
That all races of each faction should go to the other in fact.
You actually have no issue with entirely dismantling the essence of both factions. That suggestion confirmed you have no interest in or understanding of the story of this game and solely wish to twist it conform to your desires.
I canât respect your opinion on this matter when you donât respect the very game you are so demanding of.
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I have tried to be mostly objective in this discussion and any other for that matter. Trying to filter out as much of my personal feelings from it.
The one âpersonal desireâ I keep would be for playable High Elves, as that is what drives the conversation.
In doing so, I try to be objective and not subjective when approaching it. Paying attention to both sides of the argument and listening and considering them.
I know this thread can feel hostile at moments and itâs also what opted to take a break for a few days before returning.
Edit: I am low key wondering what theyâll do for the warband camping ground interface. Maybe get a Eversongwoods backdrop? 
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Again, look at what blizzard says and writes. And what they have actually done with the game.
Thatâs their hypocrisy. Itâs not engaging, itâs tiring.
Had they not given an ounce of high elf stuff after vanilla, then yeah there would have been ground to stand on for not adding high elves for Alliance. But thatâs not the case. That have repeatedly not been the case.
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Yeah as I said in my expanded answer, and I really mean this, given your suggestion to gut both the Alliance and Horde, I genuinely lost respect for your point of view on this. That isnât even something you would say in a normal forum argument, where it is just a petty insult.
No, I have actually lost respect for your point of view when you suggested in all honesty giving each faction all the same races as the other faction. It didnât even have the integrity of simply abolishing both sides and having players play what they want. That one is at least intellectually consistent with the setting.
Instead you proposed leaving them in place, I guess because your campaign for Alliance High Elves wouldnât make sense without an Alliance, and then stripping them of all individuality and distinctiveness.
You simply have zero respect for the setting. You donât even respect the Alliance as a faction, which make it all the more mysterious as to why you are so determined to have a core Horde race accessible to the Alliance. I have to assume it is some bizarre attachment to the Silver Covenant group itself rather than the Alliance that motivates you.
Regardless, given your absolute lack of respect for the setting as a whole, I genuinely donât think any of your complaints regarding hypocrisy or your interpretations of them can really be taken seriously.
I meanâŚHumans on the Horde? Orcs in the Alliance? Really!?
The post in question in case anyone wonders what I am on about.
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Because the faction conflict is overall a stain on the game.
The only reason it has survived this long, is not because itâs been liked. But because the playerbase have been large enough to mask itâs fault, least until SL/DF.
Even back in vanilla we could clearly see itâs cracks with the pvp servers. How the vast majority of them ended up tipping to either Alliance to Horde, with the so called balanced servers being oddities.
Battle for Azeroth, with the âallied racesâ system was a perfect opportunity for them to break down the race/faction barriers first. By giving both sides the same races. Only to crack the cancer thatâs been plaguing the game since vanilla.
But alas⌠they did not, an instead gave us some of the worst story telling you could find, arguably anywhere with BFA and SL.
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? The game is based on a series of classic RTS where the faction divide between Horde and Alliance is absolutely fundamental. You literally donât have a leg to stand on if you donât respect that absolutely central pillar of the franchise. Bear in mind, you arenât arguing for moving past the Horde and AllianceâŚyou are arguing for ruining them. Thatâs a key distinction and vividly illustrates you simply donât get it.
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And WC3 ended with Nelves, Humans and Orcs on decent terms.
Arguably for WoW Theramore should have been the human starting point, with Stormwind a neutral, later hostile force run by the twilight cult.
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âFour years have passed since the mortal races banded together and stood united against the might of the Burning Legion. Though Azeroth was saved, the tenuous pact between the Horde and the Alliance has all but evaporated. The drums of war thunder once againâ
You keep compounding the error by emphasising you havenât been following along.
This akin to someone arguing Star Wars should get rid of Jedi, Sith , the force and that Empire business.
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The was no alliance between the Horde And Alliance. Since both were largely fubar after the 2nd war and then later Arthasâs little merry trip.
There was an alliance between Thralls Horde and Jainas Theramore which both were independent from their parent factions.
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Thrallâs Horde IS the HordeâŚthatâs what the whole new Horde thing was aboutâŚyouâre not changing my mind when I say I no longer think you know what you are talking about I am afraid. How can you claim hypocrisy when you are making such fundamental mistakes in understanding the story or making suggestions so completely at odds with what the story is?
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Thralls horde is a small part of the former horde, mainly from those of Doomhammer and the more honorable tribes. With the less honorable ones dying with GulâDan. The other parts is darkspear trolls, which were outcasts from troll society and bloodtotem tauren which were nearly hunted to extinction.
The old horde did not have tauren. And their troll allies were amani, not darkspear.
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To be fair I donât see Blizzard ever removing factions as that would upset large portion of players. Although I do wish they did better Job representing them within the storyline. I do agree they are a relic at this point and Blizzard fails to write a war story in the era where neither side was inherently evil and bad (although at least they tried early on as Both alliance and horde had their fair share of dubious morality moments).
I feel however itâs hard to write in High Elves as a Race without creeping on Blood Elf Identity as both groups differ only in their political views. Something the stories surrounding both groups strongly reinforces as High Elves still failed to build anything for themselves at most hoping and wanting to oust Lorâthemar off his seat and bring Silvermoon to Alliance.
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Come on, mate. We get a gobelin in the SI:7.
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We did have a Goblin in SI:7. Also by all technicality only two Cartels Joined the Horde with remaining being Neutral Entities.
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And even in those two cases - the Bilgewater isnât fully commited to the Horde in the same way that youâd have, say, the Darkspear. Undermine shows theyâre atleast partly neutral to this day. And the Darkfuse were just contractors and mercenaries, rather than actually part of the Horde, so even less so than the Bilgewater. (And not even the actual playable Horde, but Garroshâ True Horde.)
Good news High elf fans
Windrunner Spireâs curse is lifted once you complete the dungeon!
Maybe the High elves will take over that place and make it their home 
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Oh my bad I thought Gazlowe was higher in the ranks of Steamwheedle and brought it with him. Then yeah thatâs one cartel. Although as of now heâs also running the Undermine alongside other cartels bosses.
Very unlikely as that is in blood elf and thus horde territory. There is a reason that new refuge is outside of the kingdom of quelâthalas.
Ironically because of the nature of Goblin society a lore consistent case could be constructed for a Goblin cartel to join the Alliance. But they wonât for the same reason they wonât add Alliance High Elves, Goblins are recognised core Horde race.
They will never remove factions. In fact there has been something of a backlash to the de-emphasising of the factions in recent years, even though there was often feedback on forums seeking such an outcome which just goes to show that just because a vocal group demands something it doesnât necessarily mean it is the right choice by everyone. The solution is of course to place the two factions at odds whilst allowing players agency on who to group with and we may return to a cold war in the fullness of time, which is probably where the faction relationship is best.
But the complaint I am raising with LivĂa is that her suggestions prove she doesnât understand the setting. No one who truly loves this franchise or its narrative would ever contemplate gutting the Alliance and the Horde as she did with that revealing suggestion. Abolishing the two factions and moving past them? Sure, there is a case for that, but leaving them in place but no longer recognisable as what they were supposed to be was a horrifying suggestion. Destroying the souls of both factions just to get Alliance High ElvesâŚin fact I figure the primary reason the suggestion was made was that Alliance High Elves wouldnât make sense on any level if the Alliance was just gone with a more honest abolition.
How can you claim Blizzard are being hypocritical when you clearly so fundamentally donât grasp the story or its meanings?
Such as this. No, Thallâs Horde was not a small part of the former Horde. The Old Horde had collapsed by the time Thrall liberated the camps, with a vestigial remnant under Rend Blackhand we know of as the Dark Horde skulking around Blackrock Spire. As a result, Thrallâs New Horde WAS the Horde. There were no bigger Hordes for it to be a part of. It was a successor organisation.
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