Canât say I have heard of that. They have chosen to refrain from entering the faction conflict at the start of WotLK, but they did not, at any point, leave the Alliance - which they were a part of since forever. And before you deny that, I invite you check out the questing in Classic Silverpine and Hillsbrad where the Dalaran Mages are described specifically as Alliance and targetted by the Horde for that. Shadow of the Sun further emphasizes this back in Cataclysm that the only reason the Kirin Tor entertained the Sunreavers being present was due to the threat posed by Malygos.
And again, if TWWâs epilogue of the Kirin Tor has Jaina and Khadgar talking about Dalaranâs role in the Alliance, idk what to tell you - if you think theyâve ever been a fully neutral faction. (They also had members deployed in BfA against the Horde - off the top of my head in the Azshara patch.) Which by the way, is exactly what Silvermoon will be moving forward. A Horde-aligned Kingdom, thatâs also varying degrees of friendly to the Alliance.
On the contrary - the Alliance held 0 (legal) foothold in Quelâthalas up until this point. Now? Not only are they welcomed and arguably encouraged to come, but theyâre setting up zones of their own. Again my friend, Iâm just looking out for you so that you donât get too disappointed when the expansion drops and you actually get the exact opposite of everything youâve written so far.
But since youâre keen on speculation, hereâs my own: the only triumph that remains by this point is retiring either Halduron or Rommath, and having them replaced by a High/Void Elf - at which point the Alliance will have a stake in governing, too. But thatâs speculation so far, and weâll just have to wait and see how the game progresses in the patch cycle! The outlook isnât positive on Rommath though.
To be fair redoing (or in my case doing since I wasnât a player during Legion) Broken Shore scenario was⌠Interesting. Made me see VolâJinâs death in a different light and seeing Sylvanas first steps as the Warchief felt almost too genuine for what became later. We saw that calling Valâkyr to save the Horde wasnât an easy decision. Hell we saw Sylvanas whisking away various Horde leaders whenever they were overwhelmed.
From my perspective, lore supports Xyraxesâ view, while the live game experience gives Kaerosâ impression. These two perspectives clash because one is about the story, and the other is about what players actually see.
Jaina and Khadgarâs PERSONAL mission to protect the Alliance did not necessarily extend to the city state of Dalaran. I doubt Aethas Sunreaver saw that as a part of his mission or of the city when he served on the Six.
Silvermoon is not a Horde aligned Kingdom. Silvermoon is a part of the Horde. To claim otherwise is to suggest that the Night Elves are only âalignedâ with the Alliance because I can visit BelâAmeth without getting shot for my troubles on my Blood Elf Mage.
This is simply projection on your part that you believe this expansion represents a loosening of the role of the Blood Elves within the Horde, yet you do not similarly treat what happened with the Night Elves as a loosening of their role within the Alliance.
Youâre comparing apples to oranges. Horde-aligned people arenât invited to settle up lands, set up a millitary base and inherit a foremost stronghold on Amirdrassil. The presence of the Horde on Belâameth is limited to two Druids. Which is also nothing novel and actually in-line with previously established lore of Tauren Druids frequenting Darnassus during Cenarion Meetings.
I disagree. He is trying to argue that Quelâthalas is going to be âsharedâ with the Alliance to a degree when narratively this is simply a convenience to allow Alliance players to quest in story relevant territory. It is still a Horde Kingdom and its lands are Horde territory.
Again, Arator being the legal owner of the structure does not mean he gets to setup a microstaste on the land which is still a part of Quelâthalas and thus Horde territory.
Because thatâs the equivalent to Quelâthalas. An Alliance territory I am allowed to visit as a Horde player but which is no less Alliance for that courtesy. You are attempting to expand the individual grace that will be extended to Alliance adventurers who will help save the city to the Alliance as a whole based on a tiny military outpost on the very edge of the Kingdom and a building that maybe legally owned by Arator but which does not confer sovereignty.
In other words, you are reading way too deeply into this.
Iâm so happy that you agree with me, since it does so much more than conferring sovereignty though. It confers the position of stakeholder to Alliance-aligned characters within Quelâthalas. Unlike Amirdrassil, where there are no Horde NPCs (besides the two Tauren, who they themselves are A. strictly visiting and B. strictly neutral) - Quelâthalas now has Alliance NPCs strewn across its land.
The Alliance presence isnât limited /just/ to that of southern Quelâthalas, but also as Iâve highlighted, the fact that now Quelâdanas is jointly operated and managed by Draenei, High Elves and Blood Elves. As well as Alliance-races coming into Silvermoon and residing within it. Once again, the very same prospect as Dalaran.
Weâre not talking about Hamuul visiting Amirdrassil. Weâre talking about Alliance millitary personnel setting up a millitary base, taking residence in Silvermoon, being awarded vast land (and strategic) property and managing the Sunwellâs isle. The last one having been done for the past 20 years now.
And please donât mention âtheyâre totally going back!!!â because theyâre not. Theyâll remain there, and emphasize the Elves reuniting as the patches progress onwards.
QuelâThalas has always been part of the Horde politically, but current events in the story show that its leadership is softening that stance. The Void Elves and High Elves are being allowed back, Aratorâs involvement is officially recognized, and Lorâthemar himself overrules Rommath to emphasize elven unity. That shows a shift toward reconciliation and shared identity among all Thalassian elves, not a full Alliance occupation but definitely a blurring of the strict Horde-only boundaries that existed before.
By contrast, the situation with Amirdrassil and the Night Elves is not comparable. The Horde has no base or ownership there, only symbolic representation through neutral druids, which fits past lore.
So, lore-wise, the Alliance is gaining legitimate long-term presence and ties inside QuelâThalas, while the Horde remains politically dominant, but no longer exclusive.
Well, arguably neither I know or you know if theyâll remain there or not.
We can suggest whatâs probable or likely due to gameplay reasons, but I for one am not omniscient. I can be certain, for sure. I can believe strongly that such would be the case.
They could be going back, neither of us know what the coming patches feature.
Those Draenei are almost certainly Aldor. The Aldor are now a group of Draenei who never left Outland with Velen and are pledged to Shattrath city itself and were never a part of the Alliance.
They donât count because if they did they would have been expelled from the city during the Fourth War. They represent Silvermoonâs debt to SHATTRATH, not the Alliance.
And again, you are massively inflating what is happening. Silvermoon is temporarily taking whatever help it can get to thwart the invasion of the void, which everyone else is helping with because the void is as great a threat to the Alliance as to the Horde. This is not a permanent state of affairs narratively and it is a considerable reach on your part to come to that conclusion.
Were this an Alliance city, I would not be saying such a deployment represented the Horde becoming a stakeholder in that Alliance city. I would recognise it for what it was, a narrative convenience.
Yes, because that overruling occurs due to the necessity of the moment.
What happens the day the threat is over is another matter entirely. It also confuses the Void Elves role as citizens of Quelâthalas, albeit traitorous ones, with the Alliance politically.
Grace MAY be offered to the Void Elves in some fashion but this does not extend politically to the Alliance.
Everything that youâre saying is off by leagues though. The Aldor themselves are Alliance post-TBC. Their leader, Ishanah is the 2nd-in-command of the Draenei, and represents their race in the Alliance whenever Velen is indisposed. Theyâre also part of the Army of the Light, which incidentally, is led by the Allianceâs millitary commander, Turalyon. Youâre still ignoring the High Elven presence on Quelâdanas, too. Are those also somehow neutral?
Give me an example of an Alliance Kingdom encouraging Horde citizen to come up and become stakeholders, own strategic strongholds and become part of its society? Weâre not talking about Silver Hand Paladins, Arathi Warriors and Draenei Vindicators, by the way - those guys will surely return back home. But civilians being granted amnesty and allowed to return. This is so much better than what Lorâthemar was trying to acomplish back in Cataclysm - itâs High Elves and Void Elves coming to Quelâthalas and becoming long-term stakeholders with no strings attached. Without swearing a pledge of allegiance to the Horde, and instead continuing to remain loyal to the Alliance.
Exactly that, yes. The Blood Elves are at no risk of turning Alliance in the expansion, but their Kingdom is softening its Horde premise long-term. Likewise Silvermoon isnât coming under Alliance occupation, but allowing High and Void Elves to return and reintegrate into its society, without the infamous Blood Oath where Horde citizen have to make an oath to the sitting Warchief. And beyond that, allowing Alliance races to frequent and visit it. In contrast with what we had in the past.
In effect, you have a population of Alliance-loyal citizen that is returning to its homeland. And just because they will invariably change its landscape politically, doesnât mean that the Horde will no longer be the domineering aspect of High Home. Just that, along with it, youâll have an Alliance contingent of the population with it.
Yet they are still only there because of the debt Silvermoon owes Shattrath and the Shattered Sun Offensive, not to the Alliance. That is an important distinction.
And I fundamentally disagree with your reading of the situation regarding what is happening in Silvermoon. You are equating the grace offered to the other Elves as the Alliance getting a role within Quelâthalas, but that is simply your extrapolation of what is occurring.
They are being offered grace within the context of the current emergency. We donât know what will happen by the end of the expansion, or what elven reunification really entails. Frankly it could just be a phrase Metzen dropped in the moment because he was excited, he is known to do this.
However, Quelâthalas is not going to stop being an integral part of the Horde anymore than the Forsaken did when Calia Menethil joined the ruling council of the Forsaken, and youâll note nobody says the Alliance has a stake with them.
And if the Alliance High Elves go home as you insist they will, I can live with that because that is how I reckon they would be retired from the story. Whilst a fantasy, Warcraft does have to operate on some basic level of realism, and one of those is you canât betray your country in public and still live there. Maybe they say theyâll not rise blades against the Alliance but they have to put their country first, who knows, but just as Midnight was the narratively obvious time to add Alliance High Elves (and their absence is telling) it is also an opportunity for Blizzard to end their story.
Is Calia at any point, described as an Alliance member? Even moreso, after having joined up as one of the Forsaken leaders? Iâm pretty certain sheâs never been part of the Alliance in general, in contrast to Void Elves (whose stated goal in BfA was ousting the Sinâdorei regime and returning Silvermoon to the Alliance), or High Elves.
Why do you keep propping up these analogies?
Canonically, according to Chronicles 3, it was explicitly the Alliance that went into the raid and defeated Kilâjaeden. So once again, Iâm sorry but youâre just wrong. Are you telling me that Chronicles is incorrect? The Alliance component being, you guessed it, the Aldor and the Draenei.
Luckily for you and me, itâs been re-emphasized as an active proccess by developers that begins in Midnight, and will continue from this point onwards. Itâs a central, conscious theme.
Well, you flip-flop between âIt isnât happeningâ. Then you go âIt might be happening, but itâs not that big of a deal.â and now weâre at the point where you admit âit is happening, but itâs to end their story!â. Love you bro.
