I made this topic based on a few reflections I came up with after reading this topic:
I thank to Anouk for creating this post after all this thread only exists based on her topic.
As Zarao stated her topic was not the best place to hold certain discussions and to avoid derailing it further I decided to create this topic.
See this more like a Horde discussion.
My question is what exactly is the Horde in BfA ?
- Chaotic ?
- Lawfull ?
- Morally Grey ?
My opinion: neither of the above 3.
Something that tries to be something and achieves nothing, can be called Hypocrite as well.
There was this interesting reply by Bahzerak:
"-They are not (or do not feel like) a bunch of rag-tag survivors banding together in order to survive in a world that hates them, unironically I think the Alliance fits that description far better nowadays, what’s with most of its races being homeless and/or persecuted. The Horde moreso than the Alliance becomes whatever the devs want it to be. One minute it is a band of ragtag survivors trying to repel the evil Alliance, the next is a bunch of manabomb-dropping, plague-spreading, tree-burning, manically laughing sociopaths. The Horde writing gives Jaina’s flip-flopping a run for its money.
-The fact that “anything goes” when it comes to who joins makes the faction feel to me “superficial”, inorganic, forced. Like, I look at the Alliance and I get why they are allies. I look at the Horde and all I see is a faction cobbled together with whatever the devs thought would be cool/necessary/planned. I see a lot of Horde mains claiming this as a pro of the faction and I get why they do so, but in the context of the franchise I personally consider this a “con”.
So in conclusion, the reasons I don’t care about the Horde are “meta” in nature (writing and/or planning). Team Red feels too disjoined for my tastes, both in writing and “roster” to the point of sometimes having a hard time suspending my disbelief."
This is exactly what I have been thinking about Horde lore, lately.
The Horde is what the Devs think it should be:
- Someone that fights with the Alliance in one expansion.
- Someone that fights against the Alliance the other.
This is wrong and can never work in the long term.
- The minute Thrall Horde was fighting the Alliance, under the leadership of Garrosh Hellscream it had regressed to Orgrim Doomhamer Horde, so a end like Warcraft 1 or 2 was necessary.
Enemies till death separate them apart.
- When the Horde and the Alliance and Night Elves fight together, like in Warcraft 3 the game doesn’t go back to faction conflict again, that feels overused and forced.
That was stated by several players in that topic as well.
What makes in my opinion Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 so good ?
They had a end.
All 3 of them.
WoW is a never ending story, that repeats itself over and over.
From Warcraft 1 to 2 we had the Orcs and the Humans, in Warcraft 3 we had the Orcs, Humans, Night Elves and Undead.
The game progressed to a stage where the number of factions increased.
In WoW however, I consider that they gave a step back.
They shoehorned the 4 factions of Warcraft 3 in to two, the Horde and the Alliance.
Things that became much worse than when the story was being portrayed in the RTS game:
- One faction can’t beat the other like the Orcs in Warcraft 1 and the Humans in Warcraft 2.
- We can’t have new games like Warcraft 4 because of WoW.
We can’t have WoW 2 because of WoW.
So characters and story feel overused and repetitive.
Example: Jaina flip, flop, Thrall saving the Horde from descending in to the vilain road and the Horde going evil or cooperative mode.
People often say they would rather have a faction lose BfA even if it meant his own, so the story felt more organic.
After reading some replies in Anouk thread, I conclude the majority of people would not want it, in fact if one faction would lose BfA I think that we would have a mass unsubsrciption from the losing side, even through it’s already happened in Warcraft 1 and 2.
- Can a Honored Horde led by Thrall, Vol’Jin and Cairne exist ?
Because players want the Horde to be “different” from the Alliance.
- Can a chaotic Horde exist, similar to Gul’Dan, Blackhand and Doomhammer ?
The Alliance would not want it.
“There cannot be a chaotic Horde because that would mean that the Alliance is wiped out, and forgive us Alliance players if we demand and deserve the same rights that Horde players have.”
" A chaotic Horde shouldn’t happen because it would be an unpopular route for Alliance players…"
So what exactly, is left to the Horde narrative ?
“…but at the same time we should accept an unpopular route for the overall story (cinematic above), because Blizzard decides what to write?”
The Horde is what Activision Blizzard decides it must be.
Evil, chaotic, treacherous, useful, repentant, sometimes shown to have signs of dignity when fight along side the Alliance.
What to expect from the Horde narrative in future expansions ?
- If the Alliance goes fight N’zoth the Horde will be there as well.
- If the Alliance goes through the Dark portal and see what happened to Yrel so will the Horde (together, remember WoD first quests with Kadgar ?)
- If Sargeras comes back the alliance and the Horde will be together again for another Wrathgate/Broken Shore military disaster.
- If the Alliance needs a antagonist, the Horde will be there as well, with a evil Warchief like Garrosh/Sylvanas.
Yes the alliance can complain about the same.
But i see the Alliance narrative as a faction every good parent would want their 16 years old son to play.
I don’t want to insult anyone, that’s my experience, playing my 120 Alliance Warrior in BfA, so everyone is free to contest this idea.
The Horde narrative is what the young teenagers think it’s “cool” and don’t like in the Alliance.
Any doubts look at how many Horde players (Story Horde players are the exception here) praised the burning of Teldrassil in general forum, as this being finally what the Horde is all about.
Remember Activision Blizzard is a game company, they are not a book publisher, if their game isn’t “cool” enough who will want to play it ?
I will end with this quote from Zarao:
“I don’t know why Blizzard feels like highlighting so much how nastily things can/will/are turning up between the “two Hordes”, when they could expand on so many other things and create engaging stories that conciliated both.”
Remember faction pride ?
It’s a lie.
If it was, the Horde would had never had Saurfang and Sylvanas fighting each other.
The Alliance and the Horde would end Bfa as either:
- Sworn enemies till death brakes them apart, Sylvanas turned the Horde in to a War machine, which is the exact oposite of what the Alliance stands for like yin and yang.
- One faction destroying the other.
Either we would have to shut the servers in BfA ,GAME OVER or have, only, war themed expansions in the future.
That’s my opinion.
What’s your opinion ?