How do i pick the best specs?

Classes Rogue
1

Outlaw feels great and has pretty busted damage
Assassination feels like real damage with poisons and bleeds
Subtlety is…no thanks

so, out of Outlaw or Assassination, which is better?

2

All 3 are good.
for PvE:
Outlaw > Sin=/=Sub. Sub can be on par with sin in certain situations. If its a short fight Sub does more damage. In longer encounters or when Boss moves a lot, Sin tends to pull a little ahead.

for PvP:
Sub > Outlaw > Sin.

Sub is king of PvP end of story.
Assassination got some skills bugged that do 60% less dmg than they should, so until that’s fixd Outlaw is a lot better. Assasination also got crapy azerite traits. So there’s that too.

Overall if you get descent with any of the specs you will be able to kill most other descent-intermediate level players just due to rogues kit.

If you aim for heavy PvE,… well who gives a fck about PvE, everything works. Your group wont avoid a Wipe, because you did 10% more damage with a different class/spec… In terms of pushing M+++ Brain usage tends to top the charts.

1 Like
3

I think you are mistaken here. Even though sub is buffed it is still on best par with assassination in the pvp aspect.
Multiple wound+crippling poison, extremely high burst damage and Great sustained damage makes assassin one of the best pvp specs available.

Regarding pve:
Go sin for raids and outlaw for m+.

4

Both Outlaw and Assassination are good for M+ but the latter needs a little more work and something for tracking DoTs. If I want to be competitive with Outlaw as Assa, I need to use addon that shows me who has which debuffs while Outlaw only needs to activate a buff that makes primary skills hit multiple targets. I play usually Assassination and sometime Subtlety but Outlaw is equally good. It’s entirely up to you.

5

Outlaws the king on AoE period. Top 100 keys are pretty much purely outlaw, and even stacking 2.

For raids outlaws mehhh single target, so go Assassin. For PvP it depends on play style, generally assassin is king.

6

For PVE m+ Outlaw is default OP/Easy/do it with eyes closed & no hands. anybody who tries to stroke their ego about being good at outlaw in dungeons needs to get out basically thats how faceroll its become. Given your ST rotation becomes your aoe rotation with a toggle button.

Assassination is a pick or choose spec, you can have both but you wont excel at both if you choose to have both AOE & ST. Its primarily for raiding since its just a matter of maintaining dots and emptying envenoms during the toxicblade/vendetta window, more or less.

Sub doesn’t exist in PVE due to it being a flawed class thanks to class changes with Legion.

PVP you’re more than likely going to want to play assa with a healer or ret, sub if you want to double dps with a mage, you can play outlaw but its just as niché as sub is in PVE

1 Like
7

Outlaw isn’t that simply if you actually want to git good though. Sure, your rotation is braindead simple, but the spec has a lot of utility going on that crappy rogues just don’t bother with. Using that utility properly is what makes you a good outlaw rogue, not mashing Blade Flurry, Sinister Strike, Pistol Shot, Run Through like a monkey.

1 Like
8

There is genuinely no thought process to playing outlaw, zilch. I’ve swapped from my main spec to outlaw cause I felt like I was being robbed of rewarding damage for playing well. You can literally macro tricks onto your blade flurry and ambush for ST and aoe pulls to utilize what gives rogue the ability to have a head start on the dps by passing so much threat so early on.

Shroud is a matter of taking 2 minutes to google dungeon skips with shroud, anybody can do that :slight_smile: good rogue or not. And with dancing steel being the default go to in any cleave encounter you have it up more than enough, I dont think theres ever a pack where I don’t have blade flurry not active in regards to it requiring “skill”.

Its literally bop it condensed to a rotation, hit the shinny thing on proc and use cds off cd and hope you get lucky with dice rolls, even infants would be able to do dps worthy of a +10 dungeon with 5 minutes of tutoring there is no border to entry or margin where you can ever call yourself a good outlaw rogue since the skillcap doesn’t exist for the spec since your finishing moves reduce your big cds anyway. :crazy_face:

9

I’m talking about things like using Gouge and Blind for additional interrupts.
Vanishing for Cheap Shot interrupts since Vanish isn’t really part of Outlaw’s rotation, unlike Assassination.
Using Between the Eyes on different or distant targets so that it doesn’t get DRed to hell.
Actually making sure that Tricks is up for when it is needed (e.g. reaping) and not just mongoing it on cooldown or not using it at all.

Obviously, none if this is rocket science, but I don’t see many people bothering to do this. They just tunnel with Blade Flurry while a bunch of nasty crap is going thru uninterrupted.

10

There are many specs where people have a number of tools available yet not used at all because why would they bother? Outlaw is the same. If lack of using those “extra” abilities affected game, then one would need to told but they are not really needed!

What matters in current state is numbers. It is exactly what people worry about, including stacking certain Azerites. For instance, Shamans, Shadow Priests, Warriors, Havoc DHs, UDKs etc. (not sure about Rets) and Outlaw Rogues all of them have easy AoE abilities while Feral Druids, Assassination Rogues have to be more engaged and may even need support from addons to get decent numbers! Assa, Feral are not hard specs at all but they just need more attention.

I used to play Outlaw and abandoned it for Assa / Sub. By doing so, I certainly and deliberately accepted lower damage as my choice but Assa is more engaging. I like bleeds and that is why I play Feral as well. Still, when I check rogues doing massive damage, almost always their Blade Fury is on top.

11

This is absolutely wrong though unless you are doing nothing but LFG / LFR content, which was designed to be borderline impossible to fail at.

You can’t succeed at more challenging content without using at least part of your utility kit, or, at the very least, you are making life much more difficult for your group by not doing so. No amount of DPS will help you if you can’t keep stuff in M+ under control and end up dead or wasting time because mobs were allowed to heal, put up shields or cast AoE damage reductions.

The thing that separates a good outlaw from a trashcan is that the good player will be able to shut down an entire pack of mobs while keeping themselves alive with little to no external help, not the 5000 overall DPS difference at the end of a dungeon.

12

If you think those extra tools are not needed then you obviously dont do any content where it would matter.
Gouge and stun and whatnot is needed to interrupt and i could bring multiple examples from m+ to it, where you cant interrupt a mob with kick and you need cc to break it.

Yeah, sin is definietly more engaging in m+…
Let me just spam fan of knives on aoe, maybe apply some ruptures so i can spam more fok. Its not exactly rocket science on ST either.
None of the dps specs are hard to play. Your examples doesnt sound right. I wont believe assassination is harder on aoe than uh dk or spriest.

13

Going a bit extreme there. Haha infants doing +10s…

Just fooling yourself if you think any of the dps specs are complicated to play. I could pick up any of them and play them well after reading up on their rotation within the hour.
You still need to manage your rolls uptime, know what to reroll, the rotation is based on a priority system. Blade flurry charges can still run out if you are not careful to save them for the biggest possible pack of mobs. Like using all your charges up right before reaping comes in and then have nothing up for precious seconds.

Macroing tricks to flurry and ambush? That sounds like a really poor idea. I would rather decide when i want to use it anyway, so its surely up when i actually need it.

Rogue debths come from learning extra things, like how to cc a truesight mob or know how to open all the cells in tol dagor skipping the trash. Or how to vanish truesight mobs off you, what you can cloak or parry what abilities you can vanish to increase your dps uptime on boss.
Or using gouge and cheap shot and bte for interrupts.

Being a good or bad outlaw has nothing to do with your cds getting reduced by abilities. All the specs have a skillcap and all specs can be played bad, decent or really good. None of them are hard to get into

14

Outlaw does not require much consideration. OK you use Gauge when needed when you can’t Kick. So what? Does that really makes this spec more complicated? You just need to Roll the Bones to get buffs and trigger Blade Flurry on CD if you see a pack. And you use other spec on CD but your rotation almost does not change. I take it you like Outlaw and try to show “the other side” of the story. But there is no other side. It’s the fact that spec is best for M+ but simple and not engaging to a number of rogues here. If you think Assassination is about spamming FoK and occasionally add DoTs, then I can understand why you think Assassination is not engaging.

15

Assassination so far is the hardest spec\class I have ever played when it comes to aoe. It requires a lot of planning, correct azerite, correct talents and even then it barely compares to other classes and specs.

The fact that from stealth you have a 3 second window to apply 3+1 garrotes, apply rupture on 3 toons ( while building combo points for it ) and using FoK for applying poisons and building combo points ( or not ) seems far more engaging to me than most other classes\specs.

16

If he says that all spec are easy, which I believe he included Feral as well then I really have nothing more to say!

17

Tbh I think Assa is boring a.f. to play in m+, garrote garrote garrote garrote rupture fok spam. The main problem I have with Assa is you MUST know the dungeon to get the most out of it because Vendetta is a ST ability and if you use it on a crap mob or at the wrong time its just wasted; if you only use it on bosses its also wasted. As Outlaw I can use adrenaline rush on cooldown throughout the dungeon most of the time and just use it depending on what buffs I have.

To each their own; Outlaw I think is definitely easier to play but I don’t think Assa is difficult, it is just frustrating to play. It has crap utility too. I can CC 3-4 mobs at once constantly as outlaw and frequently whilst Assa cant except for silencing/stun during vanish rotation.

DPS of outlaw is also significantly easier. Personally I like the fact I can play outlaw in M+, Assa in raids if I raided, sub in 2s rogue/mage and Assa in 2s rogue/healer and in 3s. I find it less frustrating when I can play all specs in different circumstances, makes them feel more engaging to play.

18

One has reasons to play what one plays.

This one is interesting and I have to admit I don’t know about it. How do you CC 3-4 mobs? Thanks.

19

Ah hm I guess I meant control rather than CC. As in I can kick one, gouge one and stun one say every 15seconds if I need to. If I have to I can vanish stun another as vanish isn’t part of outlaws rotation. With the passive that reduces CD for BtE, my stun is up far more often than Assa so I can quite often stun 2 times in 20seconds and its ranged and deals a lot of damage.

I also like that Outlaw has longer range when talented so the shark boss in Freehold you can have 100% uptime on him because you can stand just outside his AOE range.

1 Like
20

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.