How do you know your product is garbage?

Community General Discussion
1

How do you know that your product is garbage? If your customers can’t wait to stop using it - it is.

Now look at the Forbidden Reach. A lot of the rares are up. As soon as the FOMO (fear of missing out) stimulus is gone, the rewards are outdated, most people do not care about that content anymore. It means the gameplay is garbage.

Look at the accounts of people farming for specific mounts, pets or items in the old raids etc. Usually they go like “I’ve been doing it weekly on my 15 alts for 3 years. Just got the thing. Hope to never see this content ever again”. It also means that the game design is garbage.

People were playing Division and its Survival mode not as much because of the loot, but because it was fun. Star Wars: The Old Republic, while being an unimaginative MMO, had great quests worth playing the game. Dark Souls fans do not play the game for loot or grind. They do it because overcoming the difficulty is rewarding in itself.

Dragonriding in the new expansion is fun by itself. The world design - visual, sound and even lore - is good, as it has been through other expansions. But the gameplay of the non-stop killing rares and grinding stuff with low drop chances is garbage. As other gameplay elements.

Now. Everyone makes mistakes. They are fine. It matters how people react to making mistakes, not the mistakes themselves.

What does Blizzard do? It continues with Loamm Niffen.

It looks like someone at the headquarters is sitting and thinking: “How can we hold people in the game, make them waste tons of their time?” Which is a fine strategy, even if short-term, if your goal is to make money. But such abusive relationships do not work long-term. And they lead to loss of trust.

Blizzard, you could do better. Your game was more interesting. If you do not know how to detect garbage products yourself - hire someone. Or let me know. Happy to help.

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My brother, why do u think so many pple unsubbed since shadowlands?

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This is very true. Here on the forums people will claim that they ENJOY the content, however the second this content doesn’t give the best rewards (like forbidden reach now) somehow suddenly everyone forgets about the ‘amazing zone’ and ‘fun activities’ and all players rush to stomp the new zone (killing rares or participaing in scenarios about killing more rares like ‘researchers under fire’).

This game design is awful and all new zones lately are just a chore and grind with a ton of forgettable enemies that are there only for you to tag to get loot.

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2 weeks in season 2 and we already don’t find people for MM+, even in multi-language :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
We max wyrm and Aspect’s Shadowflame Crest Fragment in no time, so people don’t want to tag once they’re done.
Tank and heal gameplay is sh1t, so they are so few.
Dracthyr is stuck with Caster and Heal roles, when they could have done so much more… so a useless race for most of people.

I’ll stop here and go back to farm this nonsense game :rofl:

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agreed. people keep saying ‘‘df is the best expansion’’ but it’s hard to find people to do content in-game lol

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the amount of declines i gotthis week when i was pushign score on my hunter tells me what you say is complete bs.

and i didnt apply to like 15-16 - only to 10-11.

there are tons of people signing. just not people who can boost you hard. those people are almost done with wyrm crest farm anyway.

i pushed my own keys. the only key i had problems to find people for was VP 15 . i dropped it to 13 - still no signups - once it was 11 ton of sign ups - my fault for taking to high score people who left on 3rd pack because it was to slow to their liking. completed it on 10 and had many sign ups then

most of players are atm progressing slowly 9-12 keys. not higher. because they dont have gear and skills for higher keys on week 2 of season.

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from what i see now, most people are doing +18 +19 there are more 19s than 9s right now

like literally now i’m in a +8 for more than 15 mins and we still couldnt find a tank or healer, it could be my luck too i’m not sure

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It’s made by Blizzard.

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They keep falling into this trap.

When you have to “bribe” people into stuff and it doesn’t stand on its own two feet then its bad content.

We’ve seen this with scenarios, warfronts, torghast, islands and so on to various degrees. “Woohoo lets do a warfront!!!” said no one ever. It was like “lets get this garbage out of the way for my free epic”.

When they do make stuff thats awesome, (torghast on beta) somehow they manage to fudge it up because Blizzard can’t help being Blizzard.

They have made some promising changes this patch but they need to get better. Way better.

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WoW has always been a game played in its most recent content.

That was always the behaviour of the player base, and not how the game was originally designed.

All that has happened over the years is that Blizzard have evolved their way of producing the game to best match how their players play the game. That is through catch up mechanics through to seasonal game play.

It’s not the designers dictating this, it’s the playbase that plays like that.

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It works like that in any rpg with linear progression, why bother if it doesn’t give you rewards? Noone plays useless activities in destiny 2 despite of very strong core shooter gameplay.

Y’know why? because main purpose of games is to give you dopamine charge, you don’t have dopamine charge if task doesn’t gives you meaningful rewards.
It’s also how arpgs work

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yeah i could do better too,the original devs of wow are not in blizzard anymore,they are at dreamhaven and notorious studios,wow now is just like a money machine looping the content,just changes the color,the immersion,originality,secrets,adventure,social part of the game,are dead.

they need to rebooth the game to vanilla and thats it,mobs actually being dangerous,needing to make party with people just to wander off the city etc,simple and more deep professions,more dark at night,more rain,more weatther effects,puzzles with social interaction like the old press plates to open a door stuff like that!simple and original never gets old.

leveling in wow is so easy now,the game should be hard to level up and take 6 months to lvl to 70,back to the roots man.

and dont tell me go play classic because what im talking about is new wow but with classic felling.new graphics new things with old mmorpg feeling.

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I disagree.

Nobody, is going to do content, without some form of reward. And once uve achieved said reward your going to stop.

Again incorrect. Content will never be endlessly replayable doing the same thing again and again is going to burn you out of content over a duration

What ur comparisons lack is the fact unlike those, WoW is a verticle progression game, and attracts a audience who are wanting a continous push forward and not the repeatitive nature of doint content for “fun”.

WoWs content isnt garbage, however i can agree its aquisition of mounts / cosnmetics is pretty bad. 0.1% drops are toxic to players time and will build burn out hence the reactiosn players have to it.

Its why you never see the same reaction to meta mounts whuch demand all the achievements from raids to earn.

However, saying lomm and forbidden reach are bad based on players not going there, is not right.

The reason this content isnt highly played, is because blizzard made it optional. You dont habe to do either of these lands, so loads of us simply wont do it. I didnt finish 10.0s campaign til season 2, is that because its bad? No.

But im a m+ player i dont care for tje rest of content so i simply wont do it if im mot forced to. And thats AMAZING

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I don’t know how you can play video games for a long time while not realising that pve games with linear progression won’t have content that’ll attract majority of people just because it’s “fun” Noone would play useless content in warframe, destiny, diablo, PoE, even LoL wouldn’t be attractive as it is if not the chance to recieve a skin, or buy a new champion, or recieve progression in ranked games.
It’s all dopamine doses, OP’s critique doesn’t make sense

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I’m not sure the OP has realised/accepted that WoW is a seasonal game.

Sure, Blizz could choose to say it’s an ever-expanding horizontal system where really the new raids and stuff are just for cosmetics. But that isn’t how the game is designed.

Honestly, I’m delighted that 10.1 has not locked us down in the cavern; we have events happening topside, and all the WQs have been updated to provide 10.1 rewards. First time in years we’ve had a major patch that expanded the game instead of contracting it. Extremely happy with this design direction.

Forbidden reach… eh. It was a story point, and not much more. I enjoyed it while it was active, but it dominated those 2 months completely. I think it’s ok to let it fade into the background, but also maybe it would be nice if there were ways to get vault keys that didn’t rely on the zone being busy. I can imagine it frustrates some players who don’t feel they completed things satisfactorily.

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maybe try playing in the afternoons & evenings when its peak time?

ive been playing almost every day this season and when I make groups for any key I get dozens and dozens of people, even tanks, signing up within minutes.

game feels very alive right now.

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Recently created group for +12 and got 6 invites instantly, this guy is smoking hard

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Because there is no sueylvanas, people miss her

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Hence why I advocate for introducing an upgrade systme for gear similar to Destiny 2 uses.

All raids that are in the game are still relevant because items aren’t sunset. They aren’t even weaker in itself.

WoW ofc can’t do that the same way, but they could allow players to be able to re-earn old trinkets on current expansion level outside of timewalk via currencies that don’t sunset.

For example, a trinket from S1 Forbidden Reach (idk if it has any) can be re-earned at a Vendor in that zone on current max item lvl of the current season for a set amount of currency that is only earned by killing the rares in the open world of that specific area. You grind the coins, go with the coins to the vendor, get your trinket item and have helped keep old content relevant and got something nice for it too.

Since trinkets can only be equipped once per character (unique-equipped), you can have a maximum of 2 trinkets on at a time. Trinkets are insanely hard to get due to drop rates (I spent 2/3 of DFS1 getting the Mote of Sanctification as a Healer and now it is useless) and such a system could ease the grind a bit while also keeping old content relevant.

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Seems wild to me to have all trinkets in game available all the time from balancing standpoint, there’ll be same meta trinkets through the course of various patches instead of changing every season, destiny achieves balancing by basically locking certain types of guns to loadouts through seasonal mods for your weapons, and also by nerfing meta weapons and buffing underperforming weapons.
Technically it’s not different from wow’s seasonal items at all.