How do you think they will explain some of the more outlandish race/class combinations?

Lore Story
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I’m curious what do you people think Blizzard will use as explanations, for some outlandish class/race combinations? Like Forsaken Druid or Forsaken Paladin? As the Forsaken are notoriously resentful of life and actively harmed by the Light? (While there are light wielding undead, unless they have plot armor it causes them excruciating agony and if they for some reason persist on wielding it or being targetted by it they begin to feel all the maggots inside them, taste the rot and so forth leading to a maddening combination of unpleasant.)

Or Night Elf Warlocks, Dreanei Warlocks, etc.

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Was there news of these combinations being available soon?

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I don’t they will explain it and I’ll give my reasons.

Blizzard have done too much. People expecting their to be detailed lore behind night elf warlocks or blood elf shamans or tauren warlocks - your living in hope. They will just be there.
1 Night Elf fan wanted Night Elf Warlocks to have Illidari features, be the only race who starts with green fire and have a unique starter zone which is shared with night elf demon hunters. That is never going to happen for a multitude of reasons.

Race/class combo lore is a thing of the past. They only briefly explained the Cataclysm ones and said explanations have gotten smaller and smaller since MoP. If you ask me, less is more. If you care for a detailed story surrounding the race/class combos, then Blizzard did go into detail for the Classic - WoTLK race/class combos. After that, it was all small reasons.

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Holinka only confirmed Mages, Priests and Rogues for all, but he did say that philiosophy-wise they think that race-locking classes like they did is outdated design, so they are looking to get around that.

Yeah, you know, we kinda have this broad direction. I don’t wanna make any huge promises but we kinda feel like we want to move towards a world where the race of a character is not a limiter for what they can or what they can become in the world of Warcraft.

The less explanation the better. Really, we don’t have to invent whole orders of Nelf Warlocks to have one Nelf become a Warlock.

But yeah, they’ll probably put 2 sentences in there somewhere that explain nothing, but will retcon the lore anyways.

Best case, though? Class skin type stuff. Give the Forsaken or Lelf paladin shadow animations, at least optionally, and you don’t really need to explain how the Light stuff works. And similar stuff for other combos.

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No, it was in an interview regarding Dragonflight stuff, where the man said that Rogues and such don’t really need an explanation, as they effectively already exist in one way or another, but some of the other classes like Paladins, Druids, etc. are going to need setup. (Paraphrasing it) (I see WImbert beat me to it lol)

I don’t exactly agree that less is more, in this situation. Homogenisation of the various subfactions by the Order Hall system was agregious. So adding unique bits of flavor, through quests, animations and such can go a long way.

Every Druid is very distinct, especially from races that don’t fall under the traditional Cenarion umbrella like Kul’tiran and Zandalari. More of that would be great.

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If that’s their philosophy, we shouldn’t expect any lore explanation at all

They won’t bother, just like they did not bother explaining Void Elven dark rangers. Lore and role players are not a priority for the current team, what they want is to appeal to the masses and the majority of the player base doesn’t give a flying :poop: about what makes sense lore wise or not.

If they do it will be a bonus, if I were you I wouldn’t expect them to bother doing that.

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I agree that homogenization was horrible. That’s my point. Your character shouldn’t have to be one of a group, your character is special. That the Champion-General-Mawalker-of-Azeroth (or the nameless adventurer, if we’re ever going back to that) is a gnomish champion of nature doesn’t mean that there are any other gnome druids. You can be the one in a billion. I don’t see the homogenization in that.

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Oh, i know better than to expect anything good out of them. The last 4 expansions had 1 fluke, which worked precisely because people didn’t yet realise the rammifications of what Blizzard did. That said, if they screw the pooch for the 5th time i kind of suspect that Microsoft will go Les Grossman on the upper management.

Weren’t you one of the people that always complained about the PCs always being the super special one man army chosen one? Outside of returning to the Order Halls i see them just popping up, without any flavor or anything to set them apart basically the worst case scenario.

I maintain the stance that if they can’t come up, with a good explanation, for something to happen then it shouldn’t happen. Period.

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Sure, but that’s a different issue. And as I claimed in the parentheses, it should work the same for the nameless adventurer.

That’s not on the table, though, is it? Wasn’t the premise here that the new combinations are coming anyways?

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Is this change in design philosophy really Blizzard’s own idea? How about that other MMO that has taken the torch away from them, how is it in that game? In Final Fantasy 14 you can pick whatever class you want on whatever race. You can unlock all classes on your character and swap freely between them.

Personally I’m against this. I am of the opinion that limitations can be good for world building. World of Warcraft has its roots in Dungeons and Dragons like pretty much all roleplaying games do, and in DnD there are few limitations when it comes to class and race. However, DnD is played in small private groups, and depending on the Game Master a player must explain why they want to play race x as class y. Most players in an MMO don’t care about the story. If the Forsaken racial is the best racial for Druids you can expect to see the number of Forsaken Druids go up significantly.

That is why I think it is good to have certain limitations. It enforces the world building. Yes, someone might have the perfect roleplaying reason to play a Forsaken Druid, but for the sake of the overall aesthetic it is better if the option is prohibited. If World of Warcraft was a single player game I’d have less problems with allowing the player to play whatever they want, but we’re supposed to share the same world.

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I agree in general, but in the specific case of modern WoW you have such a mixed zoo of character options that I feel that chance has long passed. As a safeguard for immersion the limitations have stopped working some time ago.

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"How do you think they will explain some of the more outlandish race/class combinations?"

Well, they could do a lot with “Class Skins”, just as Taliesin has been preaching for a long time. Even though I see limitations in that regard. Could a Void Elf Paladin who uses Void Spells and Animations still be considered a Paladin? Isn’t the Light basically the core of the Class Fantasy?

Anyway, I’ve started to come up with some ideas, I’ll begin with the Paladin:

Night Elves
Aside from Delas Moonfang, who joined the Silver Hand in Legion as a “traditional” paladin, the Nightelf priests already were very similar to Paladins in the War of the Ancients. They wore armor, used glaives as melee weapons and have access to Elunes Magic. If it’s true that Elune created the Naaru, the should at least be some connection between her magic and the Holy Light. Imagine how cool it could be to have a Nightelf Paladin with a “Moonlight” Class Skin. Basically, just look at Tyrande’s Nightwarrior.

Worgen
That’s easy. In their core, they are humans, so if they (still) believe in the Light, they could easily become Paladins in the “traditional”, human way.

Gnomes
It would be the next logical step after being able to become Priests. The gnomes had Paladins all around them since the 2nd War. And we know they’re interested in knowledge. Not to mention their newest Allies, the Lightforged Draenei, who actually seem to use Holy Light to power their machines, so there’s also a technical aspect.

Forsaken
That’s a bit tricky, yet… after Alonsus Faol as a prominent Undead who uses the Light, it wouldn’t be too weird. They could even spin it like "The Forsaken focus on Retribution. Many of them use the physical pain that comes with the summoning of the Light, to remind themselves of their former life and what they are fighting for.
That said, the most obvious answer to that would probably be Calia Menethil as a “Lightforged Undead”. If she’s able to “conserve” some of the Forsaken, she could also infuse them with the Holy Light.

Orcs
Well, this one seems outlandish to me. One solution I can think of is that some Orcs may discover that their (Fel induced) bloodlust is soothed whenever they use the Light and it helps them to reach a state of mind that is more calm and collected (which… er… SOME of them COULD prefer?)
Regarding the Mag’har, it could be the challenge to face the Lightbound Army one day and defeat them with their own magic? To show them true justice?
(To be honest, this would be the weirdest race-class-combination to me)

Trolls
Easy, just copy+paste from the Zandalari.

Goblins
Also a bit weird. Maybe the technological aspect could play a role to motivate the Goblins (“Have you seen the Machines of the Lightforged Draenei?! We had no idea you could the Light in a PROFITABLE manner!”)

Pandaren
Lorewalker Cho: “It has come to my attention that you’ve heard the story about Zao Sunseeker from Lorewalker Stonestep in the Temple of the Jade Serpent. Only a few among us Lorewalkers know that the story wasn’t over when Zao brought down the four foul suns! Decades later, his youngest daughter, Shura Sunseeker, went through the belongings of her deceased father and noticed that one of his legendary arrows, who brought down the suns, was missing. She was determined to find it, to complete her father’s legacy. And so she went looking for them. After years without results, she went to the Jade Forest and asked the wise Jade Serpent for help. "Please, I need to find my father’s missing arrow! Can you help me?"
And Jade Serpent agreed to help her. As Shura had searched all over the land, there was only one place left, where she hadn’t been able to go: The sun itself!
They flew high up in the sky, and when Yu’lon approached it, Shura saw that there was indeed something stuck in it! As she felt the heat on her fur and pulled her father’s arrow out, the Sun’s thankful fire and light flooded her body and warmed her heart. Shura felt the Light dance in the palm of her hands. On this day, she had not only found the missing arrow of the legendary Zao Sunseeker, she had gained the favor of the Sun itself! That was the Birth of the Sunseekers!”
(Yes, I’m a huge Pandaren Fan and I love their tales :smile:)

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This kind of reply was exactly what i was hoping for :smiley:

Generally speaking Night Elves are more hunterish, which would be pretty tough to reconcile with the rest of the class, but loving the idea of their animations being lunar colored and say dropping a moon instead of a hammer kind of stuff.

It could be interesting if they were more technology based than light based. Could have effects that border on gimmick infringement to Shamans

Forsaken and Void Elves share the issue that they’re established to have very bad interactions with light. (Faol and Calia have turbo plot armor, in that regard sadly) So giving them more of a Blackguard flavoring could go a long way. Saying that they wield the different powers in a similar way to paladins.

(Bonus give Blelves their more red and fiery stuff, while making Blood Knights the cutthroat semi-warlocks they were originally presented as!)

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Well, if they acted once again in a warlockish way like when they siphoned from M’uru, then yes…otherwise they can just dress as red human paladins if they act like human paladins anyway for all I care… :stuck_out_tongue:

There was one in Thousands Needles in TBC (not sure if he’s still there though) who probably learned shamanism from the Orcs or Tauren, not sure if he was a true shaman or more of an elementalist mage though… but it seems like a possible combination, like the Herbalist boss in Netherstorm who is supposed to be a Blood Elf druid (and in the original lore the Highborne of Dath’Remar had druids in their ranks, who became High Elves druids after reaching Quel’thalas, and they created the Runestones, but then it was retconned into mages…but once again these classes seem possible to explain lore-wise in some way after all)

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I’d see that as an absolute win. It sets them apart from Humans and such, if they take a hardline stance that they wield the light through bending it to their purposes, as compared to trying to lend oneself to it’s purposes. Even if they’re not literally doing the Naaru succ.

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Next round. :smiley: Shamans are up

Humans
They could simply learn it from the Dwarfs or the Kul’Tirans.
Could be due to an exchange of culture and knowledge, since the Kingdoms are allies once again - more Paladins in Kul’Tiras, more Shamans in Stormwind.

Night Elves
From reverence for the Ancients to reverence of the Elementals - not a big leap, if you ask me, especially through their previous connections with nature spirits. The druids are already connected to winds, so it would be a logical next step to communicate with the primal elemental forces who helped to bring all these ancients to life (with soil, rain, etc.)
They could also be air- or storm-focused shamans, just like the Kul Tirans are connected with the sea.

Gnomes
They are basically in the same position as the goblins. Regarding the gnomish history and their neighborhood to Ironforge, their newfound shamanism could be the product of their thirst for knowledge and the afore mentioned friendship with the dwarfes. Maybe the elementals could play a role in the final cleansing of Gnomeregan and a rework for the city to make it “open air”. Maybe the Gnomes could find a way to incorporate elemental sprits in their machines, giving them new forms as robots with elemental cores.

Worgen
Basically the same as humans. When Kul Tirans (as Gilnean colonists) were able to master it, why not Gilneans?

Forsaken
Yeah… err. That’s a tough one. (I don’t even wanna think about the druids right now :face_with_spiral_eyes:)
What if Forsaken call upon tormented or corrupted elementals, that are “forsaken” by the others? To give them a place or a purpose? Like the ones that were twisted by Garrosh’s Dark Shamans or… basically every malignant force that sought to corrupt them? What if these Elementals are captivated by the undead nature - just like them, creatures who “should not be” and are shunned by their own kin? Also:

Blood Elves
Well, if the Kul Tirans are shamans with a water focus, why not give Blood Elves (with all their Sun culture) some fire-related Shaman fantasy? They could have learned if from almost every other Horde race. Or maybe there were some Sin’dorei who tried to heal the damaged parts of Quel’thalas and happened to hear the call of the land itself, thereby finding a connection to its spirits.

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I wish they did, that’s what Thalassian Elves are known for. Whether it’s arcane, fel, blood, Light or Void, they’ll bend it to their will. But the humility lesson Liadrin learned from the Draeneï and the humans turned her into a worshipper, not a master. Since the Blood Knights follow her lead, I’m afraid they just walk in the same footsteps as her which is very disappointing

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Now you’re speaking my language.

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But I don’t think one dead guy from Thousand Needles in Cataclysm can justify Blood Elf Shamans in the lore, as he’s even more current than the Sunfury Geomancers in the Botanica (who were just Elven Mages.)

Again, we really have to think about this and accept that with less focus on the other aspects of the Quel’Thalas society, how much have Blizzard been able to delve in and develop their Paladins, Mages and Hunters?
Yes we have Blood Elf Warlocks and Warriors, who embody the old “Sunfury” legacy, but are they crucial to the state of Quel’Thalas now and are they important to Blizzard’s story?

The same applies to Night Elves - the focus being the Priestesses, Druids and Hunters. Night Elf Druid is one of my favorite race/class combos because their are so many Night Elf Druidic organisations, but each having their small take on their animal forms. I love the Druids of the Talon, personally.
Yes, we have Night Elf Mages who embody a past life for the kaldorei…both a highly prosperous and a rotten to the core, sort of life. Are they important to the current story?

I won’t lie, I would have loved to have seen big stories involving Blood Elf Warlocks in Felwood, in combat with the Night Elf Mages and showing that they are extremely different elves with polar different outlooks, but neither are seemingly important to the grand scheme that Blizzard want. That’s fine, because when we look at this - we see that less (core aspects of their societies) have been fleshed out.
Plus, I do love to keep that difference between Night Elves and Blood Elves. I don’t want Night Elves trying to be Blood Elves with arcane magic and Blood Elves trying to be Felblood/Legion loving Elves. That shouldn’t be what either are about and those core aspects for each of these two show us that they are different.

Not everyone has to be the same. I have always loved the idea of how a Night Elf Druid sees the world and how a Blood Elf Mage sees the world because I can guarantee they are both different and that’s great.

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Since Tyrande accepted the Shen’dralar back into the Night Elf fold, Night Elven mages using arcane magic makes complete sense. They are definitely not trying to be like Blood Elves, they just share common Highborne lineage :woman_shrugging: