How do you want your sub rouge to be

How do you want your sub rouge to be (mechanics)

Well blizzcon is on the horizon and they finally admitted that there was too much of a pruning. 9.0 will bring backs some old nice abilities/mechanics. (i hope)

So the question to my trusted rouges. How do you want your sub rouge to play, and what abilities do you want back/added.

For me i want the class to be hard but rewarding. I want the big burst window back and the hard backstab when you needed to be behind the target. When you had one shadowdance and your evis hit like a truck. I also want back poisons for sub rogue. please gimme back my crippling poison.

Like in Legion: No fall damage. Give me that ninja fantasy back please.
Great PVP spec when you heavily rely stealth+combo points.
Good burst dps with consistent energy renewing by vanishing+shadowmeld.

I got depressed writting this about how blizz butchered my main spec this expansion.

I want Outlaw rogue to be reverted back to combat rogue.


Yeah I agree with Laineth. I want sub to play around in stealth/vanish a lot. Maybe a talent like vanish that put them in stealth but not out of combat, give them that ninja fantasy. I kind of like how sub is right now with how bursty they are, but they feel too weak, feels like assa can do the same as sub but better with more overall dmg. I want them to be CC kings with a strong burst with a ninja fantasy

Edit: Oh and duck Nightblade, feels so awkward to have a dot as a sub Rogue that needs to be up before bursting

Sub rogue was Just about perfect at the end of MoP and WoD. Legion’s rebuild of the spec ruined it for me.

What was a long set up spec which if you played right rewarded you with huge burst damage was diluted into nothing more than Shadowstrike Spam…


I’d like for our abilities to matter.

Increase energy cost, but make BS, shadowstrike etc. hit Hard. Eviscerate damage should be comparable to chaos bolt. There should be a mechanic of making sub rogues go to stealth for a second after using finishing moves.

Sub rogue should be about stealth, meaning strong openers with high burst, let assassination be about dots and sustain. And i wish outlaw turned ranged dual wielding pistols.

As it stands now, MM hunter is better at ambushing than any rogue spec. Also very bursty type of delivering damage. No dots, just combos that make halves of HP pools go away. I want that back for rogues))

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Sub rogue should be rewarded for well the whole “shadow dancing” part of the class, one charge wonder. Yes its unhealthy, no i dont care- it was the best iteration with alot of shut down given shadow dance had one charge, one window. (or maybe just rework it from the very very very very ground up ----- think gw2 thief, stealth works better and very differently there.) Oh and revert outlaw back to combat


Towards the end of WoD, a Sub rogue could take out nearly half of someones HP with an eviscerate crit. It wasn’t uncommon to see 200k+ eviscerates on targets that had 450-500k HP.
Not for the whole of WoD though did anyone ever cry nerf on sub rogues, all everyone ever complained about was Assa rogues sustained damage and Combat rogues un-peelable Red Buff killing spree.

At the end of WoD Sub rogues did some of the biggest single hit damage in the game yet no-one cried foul because we could do it once a minute, if we were lucky, had the perfect set up, our target couldn’t kite us and eviscerate actually crit. AND it typically only hit that hard against un-shielded casters who’d used up their mobility.

Yes it was hard to play to try and get all your buffs up, make sure your target could be cc’d and couldn’t escape, didn’t have defensive’s to use, but when that big crit landed…damn it was satisfying…

I still try persevere with the spec as i find Assa boring but shadowstrike spam and multiple dance charges are tedious and unrewarding compared to late WoD design.

I like 7.2.5 and 7.3 design much more than WoD. Unlucky, we just lost artifact (ability and traits like feeding frenzy, finality, energetic stab etc)/legs/sets and DfA ofc.
In WoD we had: SnD, no shadowblades, premeditation, 1 dance.
I dont like SnD as sub ability, just cause u need to do extra action before actual deal dps and premeditation feels much worse than symbols.
I like 2 dance concept more, cause we have burst windows more often, and it feels great, when u press buttons and see big numbers (thats why i hate assa and like sub). Big diсk burst dmg and bad tunneling.
In comparison between WoD and 7.2.5+ it looks like:
Nightblade dmg buff is the same as ripping vens buff in pre-legion, so it doesnt matter.
At the same time, more often and less duration burst windows (every 25-30 sec and 5-6 sec dur vs every min and 8-10 sec dur) means that u have less chances to f*ck up ur burst if u need to do some encounter mechanics.
If we’re talking about aoe, legions version was fantastic, but it cant exist without dfa, shuriken combo and legendary back so we have now 2 talents, tornado and ST. tornado sucks even at 6+ targets after shuriken combo was deleted, ST sucks just cause it sucks. it is dfa replacer, but 1 billion times worse. I deal more overall dmg in dungeon with singletarget talent than with aoe talent eksdee. Another problem here (why aoe talents sucks) - master of shadows talent is musthave atm, cause spec lost too much energymanagement passives after BfA launch (art, feeding frenzy trait, energetic stab trait).
I really dont know how blizz will repair all this sht what they did.

I dont play pvp as much as i played pve, but when i do, few things feels very awkward:

  • ur maximum slow is 30% (lol) - every single class has more slow, and even for 30% u need to nonstop attack ur target with single target abilities. at the same time assassination has 50% from every single action and 90% from system shock (lol)
  • sub has absolutely no dmg to plate. in 5.xx we had normal find weakness passive, which reduced 50% of target’s armor, not the sh*tty numbers what we have atm, bleeds and old design shadow blades (autoattacks dealt ~25% of ur dmg so its huge). in draenor the same but without blades. in legion - artifact, that dealt huge shadow dmg in pvp, shadow nova, akaari soul, nightblade, gloomblade etc.
    now sub has nothing except nightblade and gloomblade, but gloom sucks just cause backstab base dmg is nothing. new shadowblades mechanic also sucks vs plate.
  • sub doesnt have garrote or gouge.
  • pvp talens are useless in 90% situations expect cb and smokebomb, but other specs also have bomb. in legion we had atleast phantom and thiefs bargain for risky play.
    And all of this + mechanic spec problem which i said higher (like energy regen etc).


I’ve never had much interest in raiding with Sub, Sub is purely a PvP thing for me. I know Sub was pretty boring and bad in terms of rotation pre Legion and can see how legion made Sub PvE a lot better.

Unfortunately, Blizzards attempts in Legion to make Sub more fun in raids completely killed the flavour of it in PvP. The re-design robbed Sub of its best trick, its huge burst damage and turned it into a game of cheapshot/shadowstrike spam with weak hitting eviscerates.

At one point in Legion Evis was hitting so weak in PvP it was doing 150k-170k damage on players with over 3 million health. For comparison I saw 220-240k DfA eviscerates on players with 450k health in WoD and yet due to its mechanics, Sub was never OP in WoD. That was the fun of it for me.


I want sub to do both GREAT single target and aoe ( like a demon hunter and warrior ) at the expense of very hard gameplay.

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One of the things that annoys me the most about sub is the Shadowstrike spam.

Adding a different ability which would be included in the Shadowdance windows would be cool.
Also, make the windows last longer, but remove the charges.

And they really should make Gloomblade baseline and return Backstabbing to Assassination. I want my stabby assassin back. :Đ
Also, no backstabbing from the front… I want positioning to be relevant in this game again.

People have mentioned other things as well, like the annoying DoT we have to keep up and the lack of slows for PvP (hell, even PvE).
Just switch the DoT to a combo generator with a CD instead of a finisher and give us an AoE finisher instead. One, which, hopefully, isn’t inspired by Naruto and isn’t a talent-only option.

I had this idea of Sub being a mid range spec while out of dance, throwing shadow daggers and draining their oponnents life force with shadow, or some such, and then would go into melee range and go ham during the Shadowdance windows.
Also, Shadowdance would be something that could be extended in various ways…
You could “charge up” your shadow-bar during down phases and then, depending on how much shadow you’ve accumulated, spend it during the dance window…

It would require a complete spec redesign, but it would make for a unique and engaging experience…
Basically, what I’m saying is, combine shadow priest and rogue. XD
I know, it’s a lame idea.

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