How Much Haste I Need?

Classes Rogue
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As the title says, how much haste (%) do I need to stack for PVP Arenas? Currently, I have 23% haste, 37% mastery, 3% Vers, 17% Crit, and 6.9k Agility.

Do I need to stack more haste? It feels the scaling is getting slower every time, and my dmg in Arena isn’t as big as I was expected it to be and I started to lose many rated games.

Also, I tried to Simcraft my character on Raidbots, but someone told me the website isn’t for PvP and won’t give you the accurate stats priority that I need to increase my damage there.

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Sorry for the wrong post. Please delete.

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If you are playing Assassination then your stats are more than fine to push and you are only limited by the skill of your team, p
Or by your own skill at the game. As a rule of thumb about 20% haste and 40% mastery are what you need to perform well, the rest doesn’t matter, and you should invest all other stats points in mastery, and a bit of haste if you still have points to spare. 20% haste is more than enough to play without struggling too much on energy even without Vigor, and you may even have a bit less. I think this Rogue has about 23%, I didn’t play it a lot this season but I know it feels comfortable to play. I have a second Rogue which I played more and at higher rating and I think I had 17% haste, it still felt okay.

Versatility isn’t as good as other stats to increase damage done for Assa, ans its damage reduction component is only good if you are focused and are playing with full versa so you actually see a difference.

Crit isn’t good in PvP (this is what pve sim add-ons or websites won’t take into account). Even though a crit deals more damage or gives you combo points through Seal Fate passive, crits are only 150% of normal damage in PvP as opposed to 200% damage in PvE, and it’s RNG. So you don’t invest in crit.

Mastery is a great damage increase source for both envenoms and your bleeds. The thing is, haste also increases the tic rate of your bleeds which increases energy regeneration actively and passively, but it also increases the raw damage of your bleeds. If you check your tooltips you might notice that 100 haste might be a better damage increase to Garrote and Rupture than 100 mastery, on too of giving you energy. But you also need Envenom to be bursty. Which is why you should try to go towards 20% haste 40% mastery, and then increase a bit both with leftover stats when you get better gear.

I believe a build with full haste and versa works too, more centered on sustained damage, but I personally didn’t try it as I don’t own full haste versa gear.

Oh and about sim sites, they give you stats so that you have maximum damage with maximum uptime and zero cc on you. This will never happen in PvP which makes mastery a much better stat than what those websites will tell you, as you need your damage when you’re on target, you can’t rely on, say, crit on your goes, you want to go with damage that you control, (even though crit is good in PvE because over a long fight your crits will respect your crit %, which is what the sim accounts for).

4 Likes
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Very informative and I appreciate the time you took to reply to my post.
I was worried because I kept seeing other rogues doing much higher DPS than me, but I’ll definitely take your advice on 20% haste 40% Mastery.
As you said, I guess I’m lacking skills haha, but really thank you!!

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If you are Assassination you should first report:
“Creeping Venom BUG” 5x a DAY. As it is not getting fixed for 6 months already. And it was ONE OF OUR BIGGEST DPS skills on par with Rupture.
Cheers :slight_smile:

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What are you on about… It sure seems bugged and it’s annoying but it’s nowhere near as powerful as you claim. In prepatch is war our fourrh damage source behind bleeds and envenom because prepatch was broken, but after that adjustments were made ans creeping was nerfed on top and even when it wasn’t bugged in s1 its damage wouldn’t come close to our main damaging abilities, the only reason why we’d pick it, legit the only one, was that it made BFF be consumed extra fast for massive damage on the target affected by it.
Point is don’t exagerate like this, we lose credibility and are less likely to be listened to in the future (not like these forums are read a lot by blue guys but still).

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You’re very welcome, good luck :wink:

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This forums aren’t red by ANY blue guys to be honest.
And to correct you my friend.
RUPTURE does around 6.25% attack damage per-second.

While Creeping Venom does 6% attack damage per second.

Both are scaled by Mastery, etc. Rupture comes a little ahead, due to haste etc… But they are very close. In NO WAY am I exagerating or anyhing. It is the number that I have had in almost every BG. Creeping was right below our main dps spells. And it was very close to them actually.
It is a strong poison mechanic that punishes target for kiting us, and provides us with additional pressure on fleeing targets that we cannot reach while we are chasing them.
-Cheers!

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There is no hard cap on haste for Rogue, just follow mythic +stat prio as accordingly for PVP - Mastery > haste> crit

For assassination in PVP ideal traits you to use is twist the knife x 3, shrouded suffocation x 1 and w/e else are on your gear really. but stacking the envenom damage is whats mostly Important. For PVP you want mastery haste, you can do crit haste but crit damage in PVP is 150% damage, not 200% like in PVE.

Some people also take mastery versa/ mastery crit and versa crit on weapons but the most ideal to take is mastery haste as your dots scale with haste like how a shadow priests dots do etc.

Set up is mucho importante since your playing Sin rogue- Glancing at talents I’d suggest swapping Vigor for MFD and Iron wire for internal bleeding since prey on the weak is trash now.

Idk what comp you’re playing but I’d suggest getting a resto druid or a h-pala since their very flexible strong picks which can help you pressure and close the game.

General rule of thumb is you kill set up is going to be on the healer by forcing them to trinket blind or kidney(very preferably kidney) while you mongo the dps then hard swap healer with everything on the next go when kidney is off DR. You can go DPS but then I’d suggest swapping mind numbing or creeping venom for smoke bomb so you can create LOS when you’re going for the kill.

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Sadly it doesn’t quite work out like that, as Creeping can be removed by standing still and can get dispelled by no less than four classes.

Also, unless I am wrong (which I doubt, in this case) Rupture is affected by Assassination Core Passive when honor talents aren’t.

That being said it should be doing insane damage in BG (if not bugged) because in Random BG once you apply this to everyone people play with brain off and never stop moving for 4s and end up taking millions of tics. Doesn’t work like that in any ranked scenario/against intelligent people.

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And you just proved my point that it is one of our BIGGEST damage spells. Almost on par with rupture.
And no in Arena scenario people dont stop to cancel CreepingVenom thats absurd!! Lol! Standing 4 seconds to dispell somethinf rogue will apply every 3/4 seconds. CreepingVenom gets dispelled in 90% cases. Thats the only way they remove it.
And right now it is missing 66% its ticks. Making is 66% weaker in Damage and in BattleFocus azerite.
This is ninja nerf from Blizzard. That they tried to pull over our eyes.
It is shame how disgracefull they are and to what levels they have fallen.
Thats why they wont even fix it, and thats why they have no balls to.even answer the bug-reports and similar.
Lowest of the low - Blizzard.

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No ?

Rupture can’t. Also, you need to envenom a target to apply Creeping. It means in order to apply it to two targets you need to envenom different people. Again if they see you do that they just need to stop moving 4s when you’re on the other guy. The non kill target will do that easily. Rupture is insane rot damage though as it lasts quite long and can’t be removed. So in a real arena game (I can tell you) Rupture is going to do more damage by a lot simply because Rupture is often on 2 targets at least while Creeping doesn’t have 100% uptime on even one target.

Also

That meant that Creeping is NOT affected by the passive which means Rupture does in fact 27% more damage in game than what you linked. That amplifies the power gap between the two spells.

Well not quite. Again, the GCD is 1s for Rogues. Mutilate twice into Envenom is 3s. For you to perma reapply, on only one target, Creeping it means you spam your spells without ever applying Bleeds, without ever using your combo on stuns, without ever kiting when there is damage or cc to avoid, ans without ever having to pool energy as if you had a never ending bar. That isn’t realistic. Even in PvE with Vigor and like 25-30% haste you cannot spam spells as fast as the gcd without being out of energy quite fast. Back in s1 when that talent was one of the best ones for the added damage it was like 7% of Assa damage on high level arena games if my memory serves me right, simply because many situations to remove it safely exist, and also your other spells can cleave when this one doesn’t really against people who know the game.

True. Yeah its still okay-ish damage, just not godlike as you seem to believe, and it is really disappointing to see it still bugged after so long.

It’s like the Shrouded Suffocation bug in early BfA. Basically if we applied buffed Garrote on 3 different targets, and after Subterfuge had faded a non buffed Garrote on a fourth target we would lose the bonus damage and the alredy applied buffed Garrotes. That let us UNABLE to use Garrote on a new target before the buffed ones had faded on other targets, else we’d lose all of our dps. And they needed MONTHS to fix this despite daily reports from players both on EU and US. Doesn’t feel like we’re listened to that much. It’s a shame, because we’re paying, not playing for free on a low cost company game.

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Enough to run away from bugged-not-working-skills-assassination spec.

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