Been trying to find a concrete consensus on what DH spectral can and can’t see lorewise/IC, so wanted to throw this to community. From what I can gather they can see any and all things Fel, that is unquestionable cannon and not up for debate, though be interested to see if Fel magic can be hidden to an extent, feel-free to have a stab at that.
However, I have seen reference they can also see ‘undead’, though couldn’t find anything substantive to what that actually means. Does this mean Death Magic? Users of Death Magic? Only beings who are physically undead? It seems like a pretty big grey area unless i’ve missed something and quite unspecific.
My understanding/interpretation as it stands: they can see any Fel magic unquestionably and identify those who have used said magic; they can see things that are physically undead, DeathKnights, ghouls or other undead minions/creatures. They can’t see Death Magic users who are still physically alive, as they tap into/abuse Death Magic rather that being animated because of it.
Can steps be taken to camouflage oneself or obscure their use of some types of magics? While I suspect hiding Fel Magic use is harder to do given the greater cannon behind it, I still think it’s more than possible/permissiable to hide the use of Death Magic, with organisations like the CoTD using the magics behind close doors without members being identified before the attacks on Lordaeron.
Any sources with more info would be awesome or just your view on the lore/RP implications.
Demons managed to hide entire forge camps from Altruis in Outland, so it´s definitely possible.
https:// wow.gamepedia. com/Altruis_the_Sufferer
Then there are Homunculi, special undead that were created by Legion in…Legion to act as spies in capital cities because DHs were really good at revealing demons, but did not recognize these undead.
https:// wow.gamepedia .com/Homunculus
Honestly, the player character’s Spectral Sight seems to be on par with Illidan’s, while other NPCs typically ask the Player DH to have a gander at something because they can’t figure it out, themselves.
So for the most part, it seems that truly extraordinary sight is reserved for the higher-tier ones.
Here a few quotes from both quests and the Illidan novel I compiled a while ago. The novel is written from the PoV of Vandel, who was a kaldorei huntsman previously to becoming a demon hunter, so a fairly good reference to most RP characters in power level. One is also from the Mardum quest.
He was aware now of the ebb and flow of energies all around. The lights were auras of living things, some bright, some filled with energy. The brightest of all came from the being who stood beside him.
“Is this how you see the world?” Vandel asked. “It is one way. Your mind becomes accustomed to it eventually. It maps its new way of seeing onto its old way of understanding reality. There will come a time when you will be able to perceive the world as once you did. It is a much narrower way of seeing, but our minds crave familiarity.” “You are saying you can shift from seeing the world like this to seeing it as if you had eyes?” “Indeed, and many gradations between.”
Jace Darkweaver swears that for a split second he sensed a demonic presence up and behind us. He took some of our forces up to the cave just to the southeast to investigate. They found nothing in the cave, but he is certain that something is amiss.” “I believe there’s something very powerful in this cave. But, because of the immense fel energy that permeates Mardum, I can’t be certain. If there is something in there, we can’t afford to ignore it. Your mastery of spectral sight is greater than any, save Lord Illidan. Will you turn your spectral sight on the cave and confirm my suspicions?
“Perhaps they have spies left in our ranks. Only one of these canisters contains the helstones I seek. The rest are filled with rocks.” “How can you tell?” “Use the sight the ritual gave you.” Vandel concentrated on the metal cylinders and saw immediately what his overlord had meant. One of them blazed with contained energy as if filled to the brim with scintillant crystals. The others did not burn nearly so bright. They contained no trapped magical energy that Illidan could use for whatever it was he planned. As if to prove his point, Illidan leaned forward and wrenched one open. Glittering gemstones rolled out, but so did a number of glassy shards. One who did not possess the spectral sight of a demon hunter might have been fooled, but one who could see the presence of magic itself was not deceived.
Illidan’s aura became sharper, its greenish-yellow light blazing. Motes of it swirled in the air around him, shifting into new patterns as the Betrayer moved his fingers and arms. Vandel realized he was seeing fel magic being bound to Illidan’s will as he drew upon its power. A moment later a bolt of it leapt from Illidan’s finger and impacted on Vandel’s chest. Strength drained from his body like wine from an upended goblet. The dizziness returned, multiplied a thousandfold. He crashed into the stone at Illidan’s hooves, rage departing in proportion to his strength.
I don’t really know how an Undead could mask itself from Spectral Sight, considering they’re literally full of magic that keeps them ‘alive’. So the Homunculus is one of those weird things that just… make no sense. Spectral Sight can see even ghosts that are invisible to the naked eye, so yeah.
It’s stated you can control the Spectral Sight to the point where you can see the world normally, if you want to. It’s probably the most adaptable Nightvision ever.
I wouldn’t put much importance into the TBC lore because a lot of things have changed since. As I recall Demon Hunters foiled an infiltration attempt by the Legion and I’m going to say Dreadlords are better at being sneaky than entire Forge camps.
I don’t think so. He explicitly says they set up powerful wards to prevent it. I think it is fair reasoning to assume there is magic that can veil it.
Even Illidan encounters forces that can do so, though of course that is another power level completely. Either way, veiling oneself from demon hunters is definitely possible.
He sensed another presence. Something lurked close by, studying him. He extended all his senses to the ultimate. There was something there, but he could not quite pin it down. It was as shielded as he was. A sentinel? Or something else? He forced himself to watch and wait, but nothing happened. Time to move.
Then later:
Illidan felt the other watching presence again. It enwrapped him. He struggled against it but could not cast it off, even as Kil’jaeden’s eyes lay fully upon him. The Deceiver’s gaze rested there, pregnant with the threat of destruction; then it passed on. Something had turned it away from Illidan, and it took him a moment to realize what. The presence that enshrouded him now pushed him out of the edge of the throne room. He had a sense of it just for an instant. It was a thing of Light, so bright as almost to be painful to behold. As he became aware of it, he heard a titanic roar of rage from within the throne room of Kil’jaeden, as if the eredar lord sensed it, too. The shackles of ectoplasm that had bound him sloughed away. Begone from this place. You cannot survive here. Not now. The voice spoke within his head and was gone. The spell of translocation snatched him back to the Throne of Kil’jaeden.
When magic is involved, there will usually be magic to counter it. Demon Hunters are a tier above the rank-and-file detectors of magic however (they remind me a bit of Felhounds in that way), so personally, I would have Vervaina conduct rituals to cloak herself specifically from Spectral Sight.
In her particular case that would likely fall short of being a success, but I digress. I maintain that more insightful spellcasters could do it.
Homunculi remain canon, so it can be done. They were specifically designed to that end however, and I’m not sure that particular process could be replicated by a PC. It seemed a very recent breakthrough for the Legion.
If Dreadlords were foiled by Demon Hunters to the point where they needed to make some meat puppets for it, I very much doubt most characters could pull it off.
“I believe there’s something very powerful in this cave. But, because of the immense fel energy that permeates Mardum, I can’t be certain.
One assumes that someone who knows how DH sight works (like the Legion would) would also know how to hide fel energy, in the same way that someone could fool an infra-red camera by building something that masks an IR signature.
They don´t have eyes, though, Spectral Sight is just another form of magic. So, unless you are saying that it´s a magic that can never fail nor can be ever countered, then there must be ways to counter it.
It just so happens that we know of multiple examples from lore when this was done.
Also, let´s not act as if actual rules for Spectral Sight in lore aren´t “it works when we need it to and it doesn´t when we need it to”.
Demons infiltrate Stormwind as DHs are arriving there…they get detected.
DH needs player to scout demon camps…they block Spectral Sight.
Ordinary DH needs our super duper DH hero to scout something for him…super duper DH hero can do while ordinary DH can´t.
In terms of the IC application of spectral sight, I personally handle it case by case bases. For example, if you as another player accept you can block spectral sight with wards, or some other method as shown above there is a source for that.
There is obviously also a source, such as Kil’Jaden fight (I’m aware its PC gameplay to an extent, this is merely for the sake of my point) where a Demon Hunter could argue that spectral sight literally has no upper limit. (Even though it would be a crazy thing to argue)
I think what it boils down too is how your spectral sight serves the narrative you’re occupying, and what’s considered reasonable to the player you’re Rping with. I tend to fire off a spectral sight emote, and leave the decision of how much I am able to obtain down to the other player.
Spectral Sight is no different to healing if you don’t want to consent to it. Then realistically it has no power, statements on the strength of certain things are pretty subjective. What is considered strong to one person, maybe considered weak to another I don’t believe you can define how ‘powerful’ something ultimately is as a generalisation. It comes down to the individual’s interpretation of lore statements/feats, at the end of the day.
WoW lacks the values of a hard magic system, in terms of its story telling which is why I personally think it can all be so subjective. However, that’s just my opinion.
I appreciate all the info/discussion so far, keep it up!
For me, without being too specific as I don’t want to spoil my character too much, I use Sophisticated Arcane Illusions to cover my use of some questionable magics (not fel), the idea being if I am sighted, or people look for any magic I may use/have, they only see a very strong Arcanic presences, which while it may be perplexing for a Scholar to have such a strong Arcane aura, it’s a suitable ‘camouflage’ using some of my characters skill-sets to misdirect my magical signature.
Regarding Spectral Sight, even Azshara fooled Illidan’s eyes for a while in WoA.
While Illidan was still new to it and Azshara is OP, it should be remembered that this also proves that the eyes are fallible.
Was this a misdirection, tricking the sight or purely overpowering it? Personally, I’ve always been of the mind you can deceive spectral sight, as it is a ‘sense’ similar how with optical illusions you can deceive an individual’s eyes.
Using deception, rather than brutal ‘me ward be stronk’ always seemed reasonable to me. If you frame it in a way that tests the intellect of the character, vs flat out ‘ye can’t see me’ as with many things I think it will come down to your application and execution of it IC! Best of luck though.