Instead of having some sort of punishment like deserter debuff, simply make it so that when you reset a key it stays on the same level and dungeon. Obviously it will still be frustrating if someone leaves, but there is a huge difference between having to re-level the key up to where it was at first (and probably get a different dungeon), compared to just replacing the player(s) who left and try again. It’s not perfect by any means, but it takes away a major part of peoples frustration when someone leaves their key - that the key is now “ruined”.
The only exploit that could come from such a system is that organised groups can reset over and over until they get a perfect run, but I don’t really see a big problem with that. In raids you can try as many times as you want the whole week if you’re stuck on a boss. Why can’t I do the same if my group is stuck on a certain keystone?
If I want to lower a key on purpose, just add a sub-menu in the Font of Power inside dungeons.
If you can try over and over again on the same key you take away the challenge of having to do it in that one run. I know it can be frustrating a bit not having a key, but it is what it is. For my group the unfortunate truth is that NW +18 keys do not exists since months. And we really would like to time a +18 somewhere.
I think it’s a bit harsh with the current system that you have no control over your keys in the first place outside of timing it or not. You start with a random key that turns into a random key when the run is over.
It doesn’t really affect me that much since I run with a regular group. It’s just the daily “punish leavers” threads here, and I think Blizzard needs to do something to help the problem. At the same time, automated punishments can be abused which is why they have said before it’s not an option. So that’s why I was thinking that it might be a better solution to have the penalty for resetting a key be less severe than it currently is. The main goal is to avoid people having their key ruined instantly if someone leaves. Could be as simple as adding a cooldown to resetting it or have each key come with 2-3 charges so you have a few attempts before it actually depletes.
Either way, the system we have right now is not great in my opinion.
They could add a sub-menu to the Font of Power inside the dungeons, so when you insert the key you will get the option to manually lower it do a specific level.
The self-modulating difficulty is core to the M+ experience. Deleveling keys must remain. My current 180 ilvl mage has a +10 key because I got carried. Obviously this key is above my station so if I want to run my key, I need to be able to delevel it.
Failure to finish the run in time for any reason means the party leader was trying to chew more than they could eat. That’s why their key gets deleveled. You clearly couldn’t finish a +X key in time, so you deserve a +(X-1) key, until you’re at a level where you can finish your key.
Is that the only exploit? What about level ~170s with +15 keys? Their keys will never delevel. You don’t see a problem with that? You don’t see the infinite potential for exploits?
Nobody will delevel their key willingly. It is always somebody else’s fault your key failed.
M+ has an infinitely scaling, self-modulating difficulty. Just because someone has a +10 or a +15 key doesn’t mean they can do a +10 or a +15. This is why when they fail their run, their key must delevel. If you have a constant problem with people leaving your parties, you need to reevaluate your invitation practices.
Nobody ever leaves a key that goes smoothly. People usually leave keys after a series of mistakes. The higher the key, the lower the margin of error that some people allow.
Wrong. I was helping someone boost some friends of theirs on fresh characters in 150-160ilv. With healer + 2 dps in that kind of gear I didn’t want to suffer through a +15, so I lowered my key to +10. It’s not that uncommon.
Ok, so a group of that ilv has a key that they can’t do on time. My suggestion was merely letting people re-start a key without it de-leveling. If they finish the run over the time, it gets de-leveled. How can this have inifinite potential for exploiting? If they reset the key, they don’t get any loot or score.
Also, if you read my second post I said that perhaps some sort of limit to how many times you can reset is a good idea, like X amount of charges. The main goal is not to enable exploiting, it’s to reduce some frustration that comes from someone leaving your key.
You need to think things through. This creates an incentive to kick people before the run finishes to avoid deleveling the key. It creates an incentive for the party leader himself to leave to avoid having his key deleveled.
The current system is fine - keys that aren’t timed for whatever reason get deleveled. If someone leaves a key you can still try to finish it, even untimed and get the extra loot. 4-manning most keys is totally doable if time isn’t a concern.
The problem I see are these party leaders who invite leavers in their parties. Then complain that leavers leave? Like… wha? Invite better people.
It’s shocking to me that a rational human being would insist on pugging over and over. It really speaks to how illogical we are as a species. You’d think the rational behavior would be to seek a guild, a community, or even to just start adding friends to your list, people you just enjoy running with. Nah…
Everyone who chose the pug life should accept it for what it is.
Here’s an idea - it’s not the game’s job to adapt to you. Playing a game means you adapt to the game.
And like I said some sort of limitation to how often you can reset is probably a good idea. I’m just saying that the current system puts 100% of the risk on the person with the key. For players who just want to do 1x +14 key for their weekly vault it’s very punishing to have someone leave their key. Yes you can 4-man it in many cases, but let’s face it if someone leaves it’s pretty common for the group to fall apart.
Lucky for me I just play with friends, and if pugging was my only option I would just find another game.
It would take away a certain pressure, a good pressure, to try to finish it in time, instead your mind will be like “if we don’t we try it again”.
Not sure what the answer is to the problem, but not this. I think doing a key in a pug, just adds a risk, There’s even this warrior out there from Draenor AOTC who is joining keys and leaves them right away, just to ruin people’s keys.
I have two NW+18 keys this week, on my druid and on my pally. Happy to share them with your team. Both my chars are healers tho. (Though, I do okayish damage as feral…)
90% of my time playing is spent in epic BGs (capped at 200 ilvl) so I join someone’s +10 (usaully) once a week for the 220 vault.
I’d never done M+ before SL and it’s such a weird system to me.
Blizzard have turned “select difficulty/level” into an rng currency in a game that players pay to buy and also to play. Then on top of that, the playerbase thinks the system is good.
The system is good, gives something for harcore people do and challenges themselves. The random Key and weekly affixes are a way to force player adaptation and that is good.
And why is that a problem? I think this is a very good system, in fact it’s the only thing I like about M+. It puts all the responsibility on the shoulders of the party leader. This is good, because the leader should be wearing it anyway. The key depletion system creates an incentive for the party leader to be selective as to who they invite. It’s like you want to take a few of your mates out to dinner and you’re paying. So you’ll make sure not to invite the anti-vaxxer one, because you don’t want to pay for him.
You need to be selective with the people you invite who you want to push your key. You bear all the risk and you gain the main reward.
