How to make DH more defensive when spirit bomb is not enough?

Hi everyone, I’ve been tanking M0s in shadowlands with vengeance DH and so far it was ok, I was expecting it to be a much better and easy going tank.

It does heavy AOE damage which is ok for M+ but the survivability of DH is very mediocre, even If I use every CD properly, span 5 souls and always consume them with spirit bomb, I’m able to heal up to only 20-25%, I get the same amount of healing out of kyrian potion…

Whats your experience from tanking high m+ keys from BFA? Did you use fiery brand or spirit bomb build? As right now other classes like paladins or druids are a much better choice for tanking, they are easier and definitely can withstand a higher damage

No, they’re not. VDH is noticably stronger, if you play it right. No tank is meant to survive for long on their own, but VDH has plenty of defenses. Spirit Bomb is the offensive build by the way, you can get considerably more survival with a Fiery Brand build, but that’s completely unnecessary for M0 and the keys we will be doing in the next couple of weeks.

So, what makes VDH strong?

They have Spirit Bomb, obviously, which doesn’t heal that much itself, but the Frailty debuff it applies, is a nice boon. Spirit Bombing a big pack and dropping a Decree will heal you quite a bit, and also do a nice amount of damage. They also have Demon Spikes, a good defensive against melee and physical damage. You can - and should - place Fiery Brand on the most dangerous mob of the pack for a sweet 40% damage reduction for 10 seconds (that’s huge!). They have Sigil of Silence for an AoE silence, incredible for interrupting multiple casters.

Imagine a pack with multiple casters, including a dangerous one: you jump in, interrupt the dangerous one, then a few seconds after, Sigil of Silence, interrupting it once more, and when that expires, Sigil of Chains them a few feet away to interrupt again, and if they dare cast again, Sigil of Misery, and if they’re still alive, Fiery Brand the big one. You just nullified an entire caster pack for 10+ seconds. In the meantime, you can have Spirit Bomb popped and Frailty applied, with Immolation Aura healing you, and Decree blowing them up (chains + decree combo is amazing against a caster group). If there’s melee in the group, and you need more defenses than the Frailty & Spirit Bomb healing: Demon Spikes - but chains & misery will help with them too. With the pack mostly rendered harmless, you’re free to use Soul Cleave instead of Spirit Bomb, to reduce the cooldown of Decree, if you have Razelikh’s legendary (which you should with a Kyrian Spirit Bomb build, it’s very, very strong).

For melee heavy packs, or when the sigils and other CDs may not be available, there’s also Fel Devastation, which pops you into Meta for 6 seconds with Demonic after the cast, with all the benefits of that. Fel Devastation also heals for a substantial amount in and of itself, and with Frailty on the pack, even more. If in danger, you can still pop Meta after, or just Sigil of Chains the pack, and Infernal Strike away, and kite.

You don’t need to face-tank everything all the time. If you’re out of defensives, just build threat and get the heck out of there and kite until your defensives are back up. Pulling with pre-casting Decree, then Infernal Strike, Spirit Bomb, Immolation Aura, then Infernal Strike out and leg it with Sigil of Chains / Misery behind - that’s a boat load of initial threat in a short amount of time.

VDH is easily the strongest M+ tank right now, but it only works if you use your abilities to your advantage. Randomly pressing buttons, or popping everything all at the same time will not work out well. You need to know when to use what, which mobs to Brand, which one to interrupt, and so on and so forth. But once you get the hang of it, and you can line up your CDs well, VDH is a monster, even in the Spirit Bomb build.

With a Fiery Brand build, you’re nigh unkillable, but the damage - and thus threat - suffers greatly, so I’d advise against playing that build at this point.

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Thanks for the explanation! While I understand how to tank big trash, (its extremely easy with DH) I’m simply having problems with healing up on big bosses, but I guess you are right about not spamming everything at one.

I guess I’m gonna need to craft new legendary, I crafted 1st one with the power for fiery brand which requires soul cleave but from what I understood spirit bomb is the way to go

On big bosses, it’s even easier, just line up your defensives one after the other. Keep Frailty up, interrupt, spikes, brand, fel dev, meta - that’s a whole lot of stuff. Just don’t pop 'em all at the same time, because then you’ll be immortal for 6 seconds, but then it’s… nothing for a minute.

have you considered crafting razeliekh’s defilement and going with infernal armor instead? if u are kyrian it’s a very good sustain build, you heal more with soul cleave than with spirit bomb, even if you deal less dmg

Yeah, Spirit bomb doesn’t actually do very much immediate healing. Just absorbs all your souls.

If you instead spend an extra GCD and use two shears, it’ll absorb those souls and you’ll get an extra 4000ish from shear’s healing. You lose something like 200dps doing this.

Rofl @ VDH being worse than prot paladin. Only tank right now that might be better for m+ is brewmaster.

Instead of using Infernal Armor I would rather go with Charred flesh for longer FB uptime. even without Agonizing in T1 you will have about 3 Seconds more FB on the mob.

you can also play with spirit bomb and using it only to apply the debuff on the mobs to get 10% healing from dmg dealt to them

All rotations in guides say that you have to spend souls with soulbomb, but if you see vids from +15 VDH PoV they spam soul cleave often.

They do, because Soul Cleave is used for both Razelikh’s and Fiery Soul, to reduce sigil / fiery brand CD. Spirit Bomb is used for damage, and in +15 keys, your task is to build some initial threat, and get the heck away and kite. Spirit Bomb is useless when you’re kiting, so… Soul Cleave it is!

I imagine quite a few VDHs in high keys use the Fiery Brand build anyway, which does not have spirit bomb.

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