How to make rogues... diverse?

First of all: Assassination. “I have one purpose: to un-alive you.”
Make them actual assassins, not the “you walk around while i DoT tf out of your friend” guy. The get-job-done guy. The specialist. The get-straight-to-the-point guy.
I mean no CC (or one thats weak, like ~7 sec blind? no stun?) The rest stays as it is: they deal high damage, as a killer should. No Vanish, cause a good proffesional doesnt leave his workplace when the job isn’t done yet. Maybe some slow to make things a little easier (caltrops style)? AoE should be potent, but on small area. I think they could branch out to 2 sub-specs: one being bleeds and poisons (DoT style), second: physical damage and debuffs (inflicting pain and making fight harder for thier target: slowing casting speed by 10%? making rage generation rng for few sec? pain that stops energy regeneration for 2 sec?) this could work like RTB and Secret Technique: attacking every target in a small area and giving few RNG debuffs to main target: slow (Achilles tendon cut), miss chance (smashed wrists), resource regen (cracked ribs), crit chance enchanced (find weakness) etc

Outlaw:
The dirty tricks guy. I mean the guy who gets you drunk for money that he pickpocketed… from you and then wants to duel you good old western style. Guy who just doesnt give a s!#t about honour, and all that matters is his well-being and his heavy coin purse.
AoE CC thats not too powerful (like ~8ft radius blind for 4 sec? gouge is good) I would like also to encourage more ranged attacks. Make him god-like in terms of AoE with mediocre ST output. I was also thinking about something rage-like: the more enemies are around him the more efficient he is (“against all odds”). They can get 2 sub-specs: one being AoE blade flurry focused with small debuffs like sand in the eyes which makes your enemies miss more and second is more of ranged (but like 15-20 ft) “keep myself safe” with almost-kamikadze “oh s$!t” button. CC should be casted often but for short time (maybe at cost of some small self debuff?) maybe lets make them forward thinking? like granade that explodes 2 sec after landing? And the most important aspect: CHANGE RTB (maybe for something that could kill your target… or you? like experimental azerite powder that can either make bullet go faster… or explode in chamber; just change it, cause rerolling so often is making me go crazy).

Subtelty:
This one would be the most engaging and difficult spec (just because i say so :slight_smile: ). Subtelty needs rearrangement. going in and out of shadows. I mean the know-when-and-where-to-strike guy. The guy who has good burst windows due to his almost-magical-shadow-tricks. mysterious, dark fella.
Well, in my opinion it needs to be ST. Small but long DoT’s with debuffs. Great selfbuffs that last few to -teen sec on 30-90 sec CD. Something that would make you a glass cannon, but for a short duration of time. Thier disadvantages would be thier low hp (but higher hp regen) and low auto-attack dmg. DoT’s and finishers should not waste any dmg: if you hit a mob with 2k hp left for 10k dmg then the 8k should be transited to other mob (just to compensate for almost-non-existant AoE). They could branch out to two sub spec: first with Very short, but very powerful burst windows that can occur just few times throughout fight (like focusing all shadow-power to single strike, but making it impossible to Vanish for 15 sec afterwards), above average CC that mitigated low between-burst-dmg. the second would be able to maintain Shadow Dance almost all the time, but needed full attention during rotation not to waste any CP or energy as out of shadow dance its slow to regen. The shadow dance has few charges, allowing you for some mobility and correct burst timing. one of things i would change that may be a bit drastic is to make them wear cloth: shadow dance and stealth can regenerate your life for like 7-8%/sec BUT you die very easily. thats why “magical shadow powers” grant you high protection over CC (passive, but not complete; there would be too many defensive skill that needed to be managed) and give you speed boost. no ranged attacks, just teleport to your prey and pointy-stabby it.

*by sub-specs i mean talents that can be freely mixed, but need to synergize (nothing too fancy or complicated) i may give whole propositions for talents and changes to skills… may :smiley:

what do you guys think? how to balance it out? how to buff/nerf specs/talents/skills/azerite traits/etc? how do you wish to see every spec? how would you make thier playstyle different? more enjoyable? what is your vision?

1 Like

Rouges? Really?

9 Likes

How to make rogues diverse
make sub rogue cc, kill your dps in a kidney/smoke bomb guy
make assa the rot/dot up my kill target guy
make outlaw the tunnel my kill target guy.

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Give me a healer or tank spec

Also DECENT single target damage as outlaw

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Outlaw lost its ability to do decent ST when Killing Spree was moved into a talent row from core, RTB is basically old combat rogue’s kit but watered down to buffs and you have 0 control anymore on actually having a solid burst which isnt just cleaving with a toggle function

all three speccs are very diverse already… they’re Just simply not as fun as they were.

As far as i know, they’re looking at class identity, not specc identity anymore, so sadly you will be dissapointed if ur expecting speccs to become Less alike… as Unpruning Is homogenization in itself.

all 3 Speccs becoming open for Some features will homogenize and so will unpruning the abilities as the pruned abilities are the ones these 3 speccs shared realistically.

so i wouldnt be focusing ur demands on Specc specifics such as Difficulty or Skillset/theme… i’d focus more on what u want your Rogue to be

as far as i hear they’re looking at reverting Sub back to its former self with positionals etc etc. which will likely revert it back to mainly a PvP Specc as these sorts of things gave the specc serious problems in PvE Enviroments.

we know poisons are going back to class wide. i think Death from above may too.

I’d like to honestly see

Death From Above
Killing Spree
Marked for Death
Disarm
Shiv

Baselined for all three Speccs.

Outlaw:

I’d like Slice and Dice to become baseline and be its own buff rather then a Replacement for RTB
I’d like ghost Strike to be baselined
Loaded dice rolled into Adreneline rush baseline

Assassination

I’d like Toxic blade baselined
Exsanguite Baselined
Crimson tempest baselined

Sublety

Deeper Stratagem baselined (and removed from other 2 Speccs)

this specc has already been talked about reverting… so i dont know how much of the Shadowy and Ninja stuff would remain in trade for stuff around its old theme realistically… if this was to happen i’d imagine loss of

Dark Shadow
Enveloping Shadows
Secret Technique
Shurkien Tornado
Gloomblade
Night terrors.

what blizzard would trade this talents out for entirely i dont know… but that’d strike me to what thewy’d be reworking given a concept to reverting to the old.

As Shadow Dance was 1 CD.
there were more about physical Damage.
these talents dont fit the old Sub theme.

now of course these would be replaced with brand new talents mixed with some of the old talents removed from the specc over the change.

but tbh yeah

Outlaw, I think SND should be its own buff and baselined. i think ghost strike should be baselined also.

Assassination As poisons are going full class wide, they’re focus should be on their bleeds, things like Exsangunate Would give this some character in itself with the ability to Push burst DPS through Manipulation of Bleeds.

Sublety. Revert it to what it was, with its big impactful Bursts, CC and Control and Overall Old themes. the new ones imho seem more to force it into PvE Enviroments which they’re still Failing… so give us back the old OG 1 Shot PvP Murderer it was to begin with.

on another note.

im hoping we see the PvP Talent system cut out for something different also… having skills to use in Open world… to then lose them in content feels jarring, i feel like our skills should always be usuable… and thats why i dont exactly agree with active abilities atleast being apart of the pvp talent system. i’d like to see it improved.

hopefully Rogue sees more then just poisons baselined for the class, imho theres ALOT of skills that could be restored to it, and with the old Sub theme back… it’d be easier then ever to introduce some of those.

2 Likes

remove the stealth ditection from guards. Give Vanish to all specs. Give us properation back aswell. Ban that annoying Spy addon.

I like your concept for Outlaw, if they ever change it I hope they follow that direction.

If only you could type Rogue* correctly first. You should be ashamed for playing a Rogue or suggesting diverse changes for that matter.

/facepalm

good reason to necro

Yeah, I had to. It was in 2019 and now in 2020 and people are still typing the class name incorrectly which makes me sick and triggers me.

How embarrasing the poster of this thread is a Rogue and doesn’t know the correct spelling of their class, lmao.

Your reply for mentioning the “necro” is much more pointless, in comparison. Besides, topics lock automatically after a certain days of inactivity. Since it wasn’t locked yet (due to inactivity and prevent necro.) It doesn’t make sense to consider this a necro.

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