Okay. Was your paladin 640 at least? Did you have Shield of Righteous up? Were you standing in Consecration? Did you have the two block chance buffs from Avengers Shield and World of Glory?
When I use 30% def on my Paladin of 668 item level, on +11 (38% more damage from boss), then it doesn’t drop me below 80% hp.
Your numbers don’t check out.
Both the numbers on ingame spell tooltips and WoWHead don’t match with actual numbers in game. And I am not even talking about the % modifiers from M+ key levels. Which is a shame, really.
If I press incarnation(giving me +30% hp) + barkskin(30% dr), it still brings me below 80% on a +11 on guardian.
So, no. Guardian druids have more hp than paladins. A lot more. A 684 paladin has less hp than my druid in bear form and you mean to tell me you somehow don’t take more than 20% of your hp in damage as a 668 prot paladin when it trucks my larger(absurdly much larger than a 668 paladin) health pool for more than 20%? I have like 2 million more than a 684 paladin, just by being in bear and over 20 million when incarnation is up.
Even if I press incarnation + lunar beam + barkskin, it will hit me for like 30% of my hp. Them being up gives me 27 million hp fyi and you claim that it doesn’t hit you for more than 20%, when you have a far lower health pool than that.
This is an interesting topic that can become an entire discussion: “At what point do cooldowns feel good to use without making the gameplay feel bad when they’re not active”?
I am with Uda on the idea that cooldowns need to be heavily nerfed. What we mostly differ is that, while Uda prefers to nerf their effect, I prefer to nerf their frequency. I prefer the design where cooldowns become (once again like in the past) abilities to be used during “oh damn!” situations instead of being used almost as part of one’s normal priority list. Essentially, I prefer if cooldowns retain their “overpoweredness” but nerf them enough to ensure that people use them only on dire situations and not on cooldown to maximize their efficiency (which already happens with Bloodlust which is the ability with the longest cooldown at 10 minutes). -=Prepost Edit=- Yes, there are certain abilities with even longer recovery duration, like Shaman’s Reincarnation.
Now there is the argument that the above can make sense only for defensive abilities. After all, how can an ability that makes you deal more damage to the enemy be a “oh damn!” thing? Which is something that can be enforced by creating challenges where either specific enemies have to die quickly due to them becoming more dangerous the more they stay alive (stacking undispellable buff on enemy every X seconds), or where enemies have to die quickly because they become more dangerous when they are at low health (undispellable enrage at X% hp for example), or (my favourite due to unpredictability) where random extra enemies will appear and clearing them quickly is more important than making some boss fight last 10 seconds less.
The current game design with large amounts of cooldown abilities at high frequency of use has the same effect as high critical-strike chances have: At some point you expect to be scoring critical hits most of the time and a streak of non-critical hits feels bad. Whereas with low critical chance you are happy when you see a critical hit.
The advantage of vdh is next to none in keys like 14-15s, yet it’s been popular and desired there too.
VDH needs good communication to shine with it’s cc, or for DPS to just straight up ignore cc. The overlaps and DR kills what makes the spec shine othervise, since their self-healing and tankyness isn’t necessary in such keys. Squisher tanks such as prot pala, brew, or bdk lives just fine there with the same amount of effort.
You’ve told me that vdh is the most popular, but we’ve got absolutely nothing to determine how much better it is.
If anything, you’d compare the limit of the tanks, in which vdh isn’t that far ahead. Yes, it’s better. No, it’s not miles ahead of other tanks, players just aren’t that good at tanking. If anyone finds their limit at X key level with any other tank than vdh, they won’t get much further on any other tank unless they just sucked at their original tank.
There were plenty of people to play with, the tank-healer-DPS ratio wasn’t much different that it has ever been.
Then im convinced that the players doing top 2000 keys chose VDH because they like the color purple better. Im sure it’s that.
I already told you why they choose VDH + DuDu. Because they have AoE silence that they can use back-to-back and shut down packs for 12s. Every minute.
Like the 1st pull of Workshop. Is it possible with other tanks? Sure. 100%. Is it 50x easier to do it with a VDH + a DuDu? Absolutely. Its 50x easier to do.
That is the reason. And people know that. That is why the meta trickles down to lower keys. That is why they DO have an advantage even in a +15.
Sigh
It’s like explaining something to a goldfish.
Once again, top players will choose whatever is best, even if it’s best by a miniscule amount. Yes, vdh and dudu shuts down packs for 12 secs once every 90 secs in extremely few groups (seriously, most title players aren’t even playing with coms and will thus mess up the cc chains). For 99.99% of players VDH doesn’t grant you those levels of power, because they don’t communicate enough to pull it off.
Any comp with a pwar can literally have the warrior solo it. Any prot paladin can manage most of the interrupts by himself too.
You give vdh way too much cred, when it’s really just a good tank carrying an awful group if vdh makes it that much easier for you.
No they don’t. There’s nothing in a 15 that requires the utility and self sustain vdh brings, you can just yolo those keys with any tank just as easily.
I stopped my main tank (prot warrior) after I got my 17s done a few months ago and switched to getting my other tanks to 3.4 - 3.5k. If you meant in s1 I stopped after a few 14s.
I got bored out of my mind waiting for a VDH to tank 15s. And i took a break months ago. Before the turboboost event.
Because all other tanks could not pull off the necessary skips to time keys. And i got tired of the roulette of trying to play with any other tank.
All other tanks lacked the necessary CC to reliably pull off certain packs. I underline reliably. Because some could pull it off perfectly fine. But if i tell you that 1/6 tanks could, that means that 5/6 keys i did were a deplete. A VDH it was higher, so maybe 3/6 tanks pulled it off properly. So i only depleted 1/2 the keys i played with a VDH.
So i got tired of depleting so many keys just because i did not play with certain specs. In particular, Nelfs. Because of meld.
And on top, oracle Dpriest simply has too many OP tools to deal with certain things. So i also “boycotted” the game. Simply because i believe its unacceptable to be 4/5 months with ZERO balance tuning from blizzard.
Its disgusting. So i boycotted the game basically. If they want my money, then they have to pay their devs to atleast pretend like they are doing something…
If you need that level of coordination to pull off those packs with a VDH… Imagine doing it with a conp that dosent have access to sygil of silence and the dudu aoe.
Comps that have to do it old school. Targeting mobs and kicking … How much coordination do you need to pull that off???
Tank/healer shortage has existed pretty much since the concept “dungeon” as whole got designed. Going way back to your old pre-LFD dungeon spamming and manual grouping up.
We went from the roles being mind numbingly borring, to them being full of anxiety in any content that does not reward peanuts.
Disc priest in MoP tried to fix the fun issue with healing but it was too good to remain.
I think that whoever said that Healers and Tanks should become DPSers with benefits, is correct
I agree if you count all important things that tank needs to do in m+ on top of maintaining active mitigation that is a Lot for a players that would like ti try it. On top of that you need to know When and where to press your cds to mitigate bigger hits from bosses or even When you tank trash.
I agree it is a Lot to learn.
I think blizzard needs to take few things of tanks back and put it on dps shoulders
I mean we will probably see that spec more often that’s right.
But we don’t only see fury and Ret as DPS even so they are way easier then other specs.
And easy doesn’t have to equal strong.
That tank could be easy but can lack utilities other tanks bring to do keys faster or handle big groups better.
Today many people like to go fast if that theoretical tank spec would be easier to play but slower cause you would need to do smaller groups at a time that could probably make it so it’s not the only tank played.
If you ask around wich is the easiest tank right now most people say druid and we don’t only see them.
And if that nets us more tank players that over time maybe have enough confidence to play other tanks specs cause they have learned the basics of tanking apart from what the class brings I would say this can be positive.
As long as there is a really significant benefit from picking one over another, people will go for that though.
So the easier tank will either be OP or a worthless noob trap
