Hunter 2s counter

PVP Arenas
21

MM isn’t bad because we lack survival. (well sure it is part of the reason)
MM cannot reliable burst people like others can.
We only have dmg on a 1 min cd if kyrian. Venthyr feels awful if you are getting trained.

MM needs the pet stun. kyrian arrow of gcd would be probably op but would make it possible to get your dmg off. Also once your 1 min one shot is done and the target survived even at 20% HP you cannot do anything anymore.

Of course MM would be also way better if you could play FD leggo, but you gut your dmg by 35% on your main dmg spell and basically 70% during double tap.

MM has sacrifice. Playing MM without pet is just possible to do a stealth opener but after that you need to get out your pet for MS and sac.

MM hunters die faster because no FD leggo for the most part, but apart from that, all 3 hunters are similar squishy.
The only other difference is that both SV and BM don’t need to face tank dmg as a much as they are way more mobile.

being able to cast aimed shot while running and giving steady shot actually dmg would go a long way

to topic:
I am pretty sure that Warrior does very well against BM hunters.
Aside from that, BM doesn’t delete you very quickly (aside lucky skill shot windows). They do insane dps during BW.
BM can die quickly against DHs and WWs. If BM does a mistake you just get deleted. DH and WW just take very high dmg from BM so they don’t feel to nice to play into BM i guess.
Warrior with a rsham or rdruid will outpressure bm hunter for sure.
Lucky for hunters that most warris fotm ride the kyrian train and bad for them is that kyrian gets hard countered by fd leggo.
Venthyr warris just delete BM hunters as they win the dmg AND mobility race especially if dwayne punches your face as well.

22

I think you’re wrong. If MM had a reliable stun (not concussion shot stun) and another disengage or survivability cool down it would be the most played hunter spec.

Aimed shot - arcane shot - rapid fire is a good way to do steady damage.

I’ve played about 300 games as MM now in arena and I’d say survivability is the main issue. If I get trailed the whole game then my damage suffers and I usually die fast.

23

Does it not have access to the pet stun?

24

They’d lose out on lone wolf buff if they used a pet

25

Most MM hunters I’ve seen played the pet for roar of sacrifice anyways. Is that something you don’t do on higher ratings?

26

You do and since your pet will die a lot you also should keep resetting with FD + invis to res it

27

I reckon it depends on what they’re facing. I very doubt MM wants to play without pet against fire mages or anything else with high crit damage potential.

28

you do not have pet stun as MM even if you play with a pet.
And yes, in arena you play 99% with a pet (1% being the opener for max dmg, unless you play against rogues)
Mostly for pet sac (if you play it) but also for the perma MS. Without pet you got no MS either.

Well it should be the most played hunter spec. Everybody hates BM and most refuse to play SV. MM is THE hunter spec for pvp at least until the trashed it.

it isn’t though because to get of 1 aimed shot you root yourself and get most likely deleted by the next ape warrior that sits 24/7 in your face anyways.

Aimed shot doesn’t even do dmg without cds and neither does rapid fire.
Without kyrian arrow that provides lots of crits and at least +10% dmg, both hit like a wet noodle, add in double tap for that as well.

  1. Rapid fire with double tap + kyrian: 3.8-4k dmg per shot x 14 times
  2. Rapid fire out of cds: 1.4 x 7 times
    all those are basically crit numbers and rapid fire without kyrian doesn’t crit much.

in 1. my RF probably will do around 30-40k dmg alone
in 2. my RF will do less than 10k

AiS will crit for 12-18k with cds
but can hit as low as 4k without cds

arcane shot does more dmg than AiS typically if you don’t shoot on low armor classes.
The normal dmg isn’t all that great, but the burst is nuts.
Normal dmg would maybe be acceptable if you could actually not trying to kill yourself by trying to do dmg lol

well yes, we played with about the same games to 1.6k as MM and yes on that rating DMG isn’t that much of a problem. I won ALL my games during one of my 1min burst setups. Not a single game was won because of my awesome sustained dmg that happens in a trap.
On that rating people don’t even know that they should press a button if they stand in RA but well, then they dead.
On the other hand my healers also never gave me a setup with a stun for a trap or Arrow, so yeah there is that.

survivability is indeed awful. you basically can /afk against any warrior teams and rogues delete you in a stun even through pet sac ;\

btw I do think MM will only get worse if the HP of everyone goes up. If the one shot doesn’t work, you got nothing left in the tank.

I absolutely love MM in BGs and RBGs but in 2s MM is just frustrating. Let alone finding someone who doesn’t say “LOL why you no BM noob” (leaves party)
While my win rate is ok and I certainly can climb higher, the pain to find someone to play made me basically quit.
Right now I am considering to reroll venthyr and play SV. Just would miss kyrian MM in bgs

29

Nobody uses lone wolf in arena as RoS is so important. But our pet does literally no damage they are just there for RoS.

But yeah the pet can’t stun like BM and survival.

30

Yeah I agree with pretty much all of that.

You should watch Matasso on twitch he is an MM who is 2.4cr in 2s atm and he has some useful videos on YouTube too.

31

Nice math, did you get it from a Kellogs-box? Its not 35%+35%, its 35%. If your non-double tap does 10k, with leggo you will do 13.5k (35% more). If your double-tap does 20k, with leggo you will do 27k (35% more).

32

And for MS. And for master’s call.

33

[quote=“Rudar-amanthul, post:21, topic:308148, full:true”]

Man, cannot agree on that. Maybe it’s easier for Venthyr, although as Kyrian with HPal I have tough times vs BM hunters, with only about 40% win ratio, or some days even less.
They can cancel BOP, escape Spear, eaisly get distance and ignore my slows, turtle when pets still attacks. I cannot kite to get rest behind pillar, because of pets neither.
As Warr vs BM/healer it’s better to focus on healer from my exp, but hunter is god damn too much OP in 2s. Cannot say it about any other calls, even WW, DH, Warr, Ret, Assa, Feral - I can win with worse ones, lose to better ones. You just can feel when you have been overplayed due to better cd trade, better cc, peel and so on.

Vs hunters, it’s only constant PvE rotation with strong dmg till your partner gets oom.

34

you certainly didn’t find your manners in a kellogs box, am i right?

35

If you want to get any form of constructive feedback on what you wrote: if they escape spear they have to FD, which means you have a great opportunity for shackles.

If they easily get distance, you need to figure out which cooldowns you are trading wrong when it comes to mobility and when you need to back off and hurt pet.

Are you intervening your paladin with spellreflect when he gets stunned? Is he freedoming you at right time? Is he pre-saccing traps? Is he helping you in goes? Is he shackling after feigns?

Im asking because when i played 2.3-2.4 mmr against warrior/healer, a good warrior makes my life and my healers life miserable because they know when to use their stuff. If you are having this much problem at that rating, chances are that you are also doing alot of stuff less than optimal.

Im saying this because even at 2.3k mmr, half of the BM-hunters are braindead and worthless. You can outplay them even if their spec is stupid, but you need to figure out what you need to do differently instead of resting in “I CANT do anything differently, they are OP”.

36

because kyrian spear gets countered by FD leggo. simple as that.
Venthyr and even necro do better for sure.

Would guess it is either a skill matchup or/and depending on your healer as well.
At times a warrior charges you hit you with a 35k execute and you just drop dead. At other times the warrior crit like never and you can kite till tomorrow

37

you are right, that was toxic. I apologize.

1 Like
38

Just give the olt deterrence back with 2 charges. Idk waht the Problem was with that :man_shrugging:

39

Well I am not gonna pretend I am best player in the world, for sure there are a lot things which could be done better, but I am serios that most of games (not ALL) vs BM hunters are lost simply due to their OP. They got I think everything:

  • great mobility
  • immune
  • constant pet dmg with easiness to keep them alive or to ress them
  • magic dispell
  • short burst cd (BW)
  • busted FD leggo on very short cd

This is only single BM. Pair it with Rdudu → Better CC; Rsham → higher dmg and dispell → Hpriest → dispell, MG, fear, strong heals.

I know Arms is very good either, and watched high rated games where they can tunnel and kill hunter healer in 1st spear, but point honestly I don’t know how. Priest I am playing vs know how to get out from spear eaisly. You are saying 35crits from Arms? Maybe necrolord only. My highest was 20k in spear into leather monk.
Someone said, did I intervine with spell reflect to my pally? I intervine to eat trap, but have to save SR mostly for MG or Cyc. Also shuting down hunter for a while does not make bigger difference when his pet does half of his dmg.
When I kill it, he can eaisly ress them or with new talent can even save them from death and bring back 10s later instantly.

I know they are not so OP in 3s, and I might try this bracket more now, but in 2s I would say you can win vs BM as long as you can kill their healer (before they will kill you).

40

they sit on execute procs and pool rage when spear is coming up with the leggo.

Arms is as busted or really close as bm is. Just on other ways.