Hunter talent trees - good candidate for a rework?

[Mewithoutyou-ragnaros]

Hello everyone,

I’d like to reach out to the dev team and ask for the hunter talent trees to be considered for a future rework.

Please note that I’m not asking for hunter buffs, but rather spec diversity and meaningful choices.

I have immensely enjoyed DF so far, but the one big disappointment for me have been the hunter talent trees, from inception to their current form. Here are the problems I see:

General tree:

• the most amount of multi-point talents of all classes. Such talents are underwhelming and limiting choice.
• the general tree is extremely cookie-cutter: as BM you always take the left side of the tree for double Kill command and Serrated shots due to the strong synergy with your spec overall, and Barbed shot bleed damage amplification. You can never take the Explosive Shot / Serpent sting nodes. As MM and SV - the opposite: you never take the left side of the tree due to extremely poor synergy with the specs.
• the choice nodes deep in the general tree are not truly choice nodes: you can never take Stampede or Barrage for any kind of content. Stampede is only taken by new players who do not realize how much better Chakram is; and Barrage is taken primarily by people who bot in order to mass pull mobs/farm old dungeons.
• SV cannot use Barrage / cannot extend Concussive shot with Steady shot due to having a melee weapon
• MM has no benefit to take Kill Command as it does not synergize with the spec at all, and is a huge DPS loss and no added utility, as Arcane shot does massively more damage for less focus
• The tree is overall very small as a total number of nodes and there isn’t much choice
• The end tree talents are not exciting - these are the former first/second row talents of the old talent trees - double Kill Command, Serpent sting spread, Explosive shot. It is strange the the pinnacle of the general tree are in fact the most basic talents you could spec into in previous expansions at level 15.

MM tree:

• enormous amount of mandatory talents just to get the spec working
• all the good talents are at the start of the tree - the end-tree talents are all very underwhelming
• Lone Wolf is awkwardly positioned and forces people to take it even if they don’t use it
• lack of fun abilities to take (especially after Double Tap removal) - Wailing Arrow is not fun and every time I tried this talent, I thought “I could have fired an Aimed shot instead”
• Rapid fire is considered optional, but it it mandatory and no spec works without it, ever. This means it is not a choice at all and there is no spec diversity
• overall, the least amount of choice and spec diversity. The last few points get you wondering where to put them as every choice feels bad

SV Tree:

• Mongoose bite is not a choice, there doesn’t exist a spec without it, therefore having both Raptor Strike and Mongoose Bite in the tree is redundant. Raptor strike will always be replaced. Effectively, you have one talent point less as SV due to this.
• Huge amount of multi-point talents for things that are usually 1-point talents in other class trees. The overwhelming amount of talents in the SV tree are 2-pointers and increase some ability’s damage by x% and 2 * x%.
• Very underwhelming end-tree talents (Deadly duo, Ruthless Marauder). Effectively, SV has one end-tree talent node, and it is the Birds of Prey/Bombardier choice node.
• All AOE talent choices are underwhelming/clunky/uninteresting. There isn’t a good reason to have both Carve and Butchery in the game, Fury of the Eagle needs a lot of talent points invested to become usable.
• the whole theme of “Kill Command resets itself” requires a lot of talents points in many parts of the tree to get going, for very little benefit.
• Overall - very little spec diversity again

BM Tree:

• Again, very cookie-cutter, a lot of mandatory talents (having 2 pets instead of one is not really a choice, etc…)
• many 3-point talents compared to other classes
• many talent points must be spent to give you AOE
• the right side of the tree, and the Cobra shot theme as a whole, are underwhelming
• the best of all 4 hunter trees comparatively, but still very limited in terms of choice.

Please forward my feedback to the dev team. I think the hunter talent trees are a prime candidate for a rework. Some talent trees that were already good and allowed for a lot of build diversity (shaman, DK, rogue) got improved in great ways (mandatory talents became baseline for example), so hopefully the same could be done for the hunter ones.

BR

[Spellcow-doomhammer]

As a default I’d love to see them rework all talent pages and kill this split mess.
It’s ridiculous to be forced to spend half your points in stuff you don’t want to use or are unrelated to your build. It partially eases once you hit max lvl since you can rework the paths but it’s just so stupid to start as a healer for example, and then have this “must spend X more points” to unlock the next set of healer perks, and meanwhile you are forced to take some balance dps spells that you don’t need or want to. It’s just stupid.

They need to make it 1 tree, connected at the bottom, growing up into each spec, and those nodes having only talents and perks related to that spec, or with synergies and other beneficial procs/side effects. Each spec would have their 100% unique layout and allow players to actually take sidenodes on each main talent. Like do you want a skill to hit more targets, cost less, have lower/higher cd, hit harder or faster, specific reset procs or other conditions etc. That would feel really satisfying to make a build that fits your playstyle. I’m aware though that this could lead to “bis” profiles each fitting questing, raiding, pvp. But I think in general this would be far better to give players real choices and build options. I hope they work towards this in future expansions.

Anyways, back to actual hunters…

Survival feels too pet focused around kill command. Annoying multitasking to keep your pet out of cc and really bad in big bg when your pets keep dying so fast.
I’d change the specs to have a stronger identity with their own pros and cons.

• Marksman (ranged weapons) should have longer range abilities, walk while using any channeled shots.
  Downside: weak when pulled in to melee, needs to keep his distance.
  DPS 10/10, hp 7/10, mobility 7/10, cc utility 6/10. (30/40 total)

• Beastmaster (ranged weapons) should have more streamlined pet related abilities, like masters call applies to itself, pet owner, or nearest target in need without having to select anything.
  More leech and super tanky pets. Pets themself should have more variety and real different stats, some being much faster than others, higher crit, dodge rate, harmful spell deflection, ranged aoe abilities etc., a ton of stuff to do here.
  Downside: lower range, less player dmg, pet multitasking.
  DPS 9/10, hp 8/10, mobility 6/10, cc utility 7/10.

• Survival - (melee weapons) this is where I would put some weapon changes in. In addition to using a 2h the off hand slot should be available for a new item, some sort of toolkit or gadget box. To not mess with 2h weapon stats, this item should only work as a talent enhancer. Like granting more charges faster cd or other ability related perks or synergies.
  DPS 7/10, hp 9/10, mobility 6/10, cc utility 8/10.

This new surv hunter would be true to his spec name and have high survivability, able to push in or sneak around to do his thing, and get out even under heavy fire or pressure.
I mean a ton of traps, smoke bombs, hooks for mobility, cc, 2-3 feign death charges, decoy dummies, napalm firebombs that spread and burn x% of targets life fast, caldrops that root, heavy bleed melee attacks, poison dart pistol off hand shots that put you to sleep, camoflage while in combat, etc. That’s what players want a survival hunter to be, literally RAMBO.

This is where blizz fails with talent trees, every spec has a generic average score across the board with stats. Unless it’s a tank, more hp. But otherwise every class feels the same, same hp, same dmg, no real spec identity or difference in stats. They don’t need to make it crazy like path of exile, but man, give us some better build options that we can actually feel. In general, being a milk toast carbon clone of every other player is what’s gonna kill this game soon, because it is sooooo boooooooring not being able to customise your char into something different than others.

Sorry for the TED talk and highjacking your post but it is what it is.

[Salamasuda-stormscale]

Totally agree with this, the diversity in hunter builds is really scarce. The only real choice you have is which utility you want from the general tree.