Yes Hunter in general, Hunter of anything. Guys that can track anything and know where/how to find pray. In game mechanics that has to translate to seeing stealth targets as there aren’t footprints and other stuff that enable a more realistic tracking.
Keyword is SOME. Plus, if you are already that Rogue caping stuff, again where does the duration really have an impact? If you are already the nr.1 target, people are going after you anyway and want to kill you, or do you think that placing HM on you and leaving it there will be enough? You can remove and re-stealth, and the other wouldn’t stop killing you just because you are marked. If they kill you, mark is gone. They don’t? You remove and re-stealth, you only get marked again if you show yourself out of stealth another time.
Usually anti-stealth tools are used on classes with stealth, just like anti-melee tools are used on melees and so on.
That exactly where I am trying to get at. You should die when you get marked. If you don’t and you are being ignored, then go about your bussiness.
Then enlighten me, give me examples of the “right way” so we can talk about it. I mean, you are sharing your discontent on how HM and Flare screw you up, show me the actual situations. I exemplified for the sake of argument, your turn.
Of course it is, I had to use the stupid way because any other situation is a matter of skill, not a problem with the ability per say.
I can agree there, and honestly if they changed it to be removed when the Hunter died I wouldn’t sweat about it. Honestly I’d rather have the vanilla version back, than the current one, which gave more utility not only in PvP but outside of it aswell, it also had the duration which didn’t bother me at all and apparently would make some people here happy too. Old HM would be a win-win and I have no idea why they didn’t go back to it.
I don’t think you understand the implication of the Mark, when you type. You will see the Rogue, wherever he is. Keeping in mind that BG scenario, say you’re in Arathi, you are sitting at LM, your team controls Farm, the Rogur has mark and goes, STEALTHED from mines or Stables to Farm and you will see it. You don’t need to be there to attack. You can just warn your team before the attack starts, and that’s not even a big deal because maybe these spells should exist, but now this situation can last forever if the Rogue can’t go back to his team, probably busy enough as it is, and catch a dispel. If you have a batman in your team you can also, at all times, tell him where the Rogue is so he goes there and magically uses his sight on top of him.
In most battlegrounds, provided the Hunter isn’t totally stupid, you just remove the stealth component of one Rogue until it dies, no matter when, whenthe entire class is stealth based. That’s pretty stupid, considering you can do that by being AFK 10 minutes at a point of interest
You cannot do it alone without using Cloak of Shadows to do that. And that would be, in most cases, a super dumb decision.
Ah so you play a stealth based class and are allowed out of it once per 2mins ? Interesting point of view.
Exactly. So you do not have better to do with your mark, as I said. And so this :
Was BS. Thanks for the confirmation though.
Ah yes, of course. Because some guy put a random no CD ranged spell on you you should immediately die no matter whether you are 5vs1 ing the Hunter, or have healers, or can just take him on yourself.
Silly of me !
Never complained a single second about Flare, and my only issue with Mark is the no duration component. It doesn’t seem clear to you, so I’ll just say it.
Well, as you said yourself, unless you are in a corridor or another choke point AND can stand far enough to prevent a Shaodwstep through the Flare then no one will get spotted. So, dropping it just like that serves no purpose, unless there are no Rogues and only Druids in the enemy team, as these guys can’t get their openers in Flare. As Rogue, Flare will remove Stealth and prevent Subterfuge from proccing, but if you proc your Subterfuge yourself, exiting stealth, and then immediately walk in the Flare you keep Subterfuge (as Flare cannot remove this, only prevent it from happening in the first place). So, you cannot prevent a Rogue from using his stealth based opener with Flare unless he doesn’t know that but then again I’m assuming we’re talking about people who can play.
With that knowledge you do realize how pointless wasting your Flare for nothing is. It’s better to keep it, and if yoj do get opened on, which would happeb with the flare anyways, you will have it ready to prevent an escape (no vanishing in the flare, even if he cloaks the mark), or to prevent a vanish restun on you, or even as a reaction tool after he vanishes (if you react fast and drop it in the direction he went you get it and you remove both stealth and Subterfuge, which is big). You can also simply run Camouflage if you’re doing base defense, it will be up 50% of the time, keep flare and when you see something sneaking past very briefly you flare on that spot and boom, the Rogue is out ! And he didn’t suspect you would do that, because you were stealthed AND your flare wasn’t already dropped as a “I’m here dude, but don’t walk inside the bright spot”.
Again, there are multiple ways to flare, but just dropping it before a Rogue opens will NOT prevent the opener, so you’re just waiting it, if he wants to walk in to open he will, if he wants to avoid it he will.
You have detect by default, but you can’t disarm. In stealth you see all the traps.
Go and read what hunter’s mark does.
It is only good for the application you are crying about meaning it is doing the job it is supposed to.
Before it had a damage increase attached to it now it does not.
You as a rogue, however, can dispel it yourself with cloak of shadows if you hate it so much, so your 30min rant is just false and wrong.
It can be dispelled by people that can dispell magic.
Also Shadenox you do not understand how pvp is balanced at all what so ever.
You know about it yet you cry like a baby about 10min and 30min of being tracked by the hunter. You are just being a little baby about the whole thing it is your choice if you do not want to use cloak of shadows on it but when you do you are choosing to be tracked by the hunter it is your decision to be tracked. Now stop complaining pvp is not balanced around 1v1 in the first place.
But if that happens, and you are that marked Rogue, you remove the mark and do your thing. If you are stealthed you won’t be marked again.
Don’t you start the Arena stealthed already? So when is the Hunter going to HM before you get on the fight?
Then give Rogue a better way to get rid of it, I wouldn’t be against it. I actually think Vanish should have some chance to remove it or something.
?
You brought it up as being something else Hunters also had to deal with stealth.
I know that is your issue and I wanted to keep the subject focused on that, but you kept bringing in other stuff.
You see, as a noob Rogue myself (with little to no PvP experience) I wasn’t aware of that yet.
In my view, if we wanna disscuss how good/bad an ability is we should consider the whole spectrum of playes, not just the best ones, but maybe it’s my bad there.
Doesn’t Vanish grant you an extra amount of stealth for a duration after usage? Exactly to prevent such scenarios? I had the idea it did.
I’ll be honest I hadn’t considered that option as I use my cammo for a Steady Shot opener into Harpoon, but fair enough can’t argue with that.
I’d dare say I understand it slightly better than you do, at the very least
The rest of what you wrote isn’t worth an answer, as it’s half wrong and half already discussed earlier, and not only by me.
That’s a false option. First, removing the mark ourselves requires a 2min CD which might not be up. Second, if you are to use Cloak on that and the guy guarding the base is some Balance Druid or similar, you can no longer attack it as you will die if the opponent is as good and as geared as you are.
You answer that quoting a text where I talk about battlegrounds. Read your own quote please.
Also, in my first or second message I state that the duration isn’t an issue at all in arenas, so I’m not sure why you bring that up. Again, the ONLY grief I HAVE with that ability is the endless duration in bgs, open world or else. In arenas, duration doesn’t matter at all, and in all scenarios I think it’s nice that the spell is back. Just I’d like a duration, that’s all. Really, that’s the fact that the guy can track you for an entire BG even if you kill him that bothers me. Not the spell itself.
Yeah, in the past Vanish removed it, but it is no longer the case. So, lose Cloak,or keep Mark.
I brought it up as an answer to you bringing it up as useless to spot stealthers.
It might not be clear in the way I type but I’m always under the assumption of fighting someone of equal knowledge. I am fully aware that when you are so much better than a guy usually you won’t have too much trouble taking care of him.
So, about Mark, in a BG versus someone who knows how valuable it is, the no duration really is a problem as it negates one Rogue. That’s really all there is to it.
No, it’s a fair way to look at things, just not the only one, and I guess not my way.
I prefer to look at spells assuming their are used very well, and people unable to use them well will improve, or won’t complain because they can improve first.
Vanish gives you 3s during which stealth cannot break to damage, but Flare instantly removes all stealth effects, including the one from Vanish. So, if you Vanish and then get flared you lose Vanish buff, you lose stealth, and you do not gain Subterfuge. If you press Vanish while in a Flare the spell goes on CD and you never gain Vanisg buff, you never gain stealth, and you do not get Subterfuge as a consequence. Essentially you put the spell on CD for nothing.
This is why I said Flare had much better uses than just being dropped here before a fight.
I did play a couple seasons as Survival, and played it pre legion as well, it’s not like Hunter is a mystery to me.
Well, sometimes you’ll have it sometimes you won’t.
Hunters have a great stealth detect, way better than Rogues, you see people from around 1.75 farther from my testing, so having stealth yourself, plus the threat of Flare, is your best weapon to find a Rogue.
As I said, Blizz could give Rogue some more options to deal with that, if it is truly such a big issue.
My bad there, I was on my phone at the time while shopping, was a bit harder to keep track of all details on the smaller screen while answering, somehow I got into my head you meant arena.
So it should come back in my honest opinion.
Becuase you brought it up for some other reason, or else I wouldn’t even mention it. And I didn’t say it was useless, meant to say it’s just more limited than HM.
Hmmm, ok, I really assumed Vanish would get you out of Flare, I mean it says “improved Stealth” but doesn’t really specify, while reading I really assumed it was something meant exactly to counter Flare-like effects. My arguments regarding Flare had that assumption behind them, I really need to play more with my Rogue and test stuff out.
True. As I said, I use my cammo mainly as a surprise opener, so I usually care more about my target than searching for someone in Stealth, but you are right.
Nope you do not as you talk about BG and not Arena.
And pvp is not even close to being balanced around BG nor duels or 1v1.
It never has been from 2004-2020.
That is how we got World of Roguecraft in the first place.
You talk about not wanting to use cloak of shadows because reasons.
Yet you talk about 10min-30min of not being able to do anything because the hunter can see you. You are not willing to use a 1.5min cooldown but you talk about hunter’s mark lasting 10–30min on you.That is 100% YOUR OWN decision to be tracked all you had to do was use the ability and it would be gone or you could talk to someone and they can dispell you but no you rather be tracked for the whole bg and complain about the ability that literally does 1 thing the thing you are complaining about, meaning it works as it should. End of story
Heck you do not even know how hunter’s mark works proven by what you type about it.
Do not try to tell me you know more than me if you come on the Rogue forums to tell me Cloak of Shadows has a 1.5min CD please.
That makes you look a bit foolish.
Also, considering your rated exp, and even your casual pvp participation (or lack of for both) I find it rather ironic that not only you claim having a great deal of PvP knowledge, but also that you claim understanding how things work better than I do.
Just to be clear, I’m not all knowledgeable, but given what I did, and do, in this game I’m pretty confident that I know a couple more things avout PvP than mister 1500 arena exp with honor lvl 27, showcasing an almost nonexistant BG participation on top of no rated experience, since at least Legion, and it’s been 4 years.
With what you manage to type out, probably more than you, my dear. But then again you’re not really what I aspire to be compared to so lets say that if you stop tagging me with useless posts I’ll not answer your things, shall we ?
Indeed, in theory it aims at being balanced at 3vs3 as it is the competitive format, but World of Mythic Plus has been balanced around M+ first and PvP comes second. So even there balance is questionnable. In any case, the theory dictates PvP is balanced around 3s, and as I said already Mark duration doesn’t matter here. It only matters for more casual stuff, which is what is discussed. Please go tell your stories somewhere else, you don’t even answer the topic.
Well, if I get reported and temporarily forum banned because a clown tries to explain me, with his 1500 arena exp and honor lvl 27 that he his the almighty PvP knowledge incarnate, I’d actually laugh, and take it.
how about if feint removed it? say feint dispelled 1 magic effect on you. consider it still has 15 sec cd. would that be acceptable? perhaps as a pvp talent?
vs just 1 hunter it’s all good to use cloak to remove it, though it will be reapplied faster than cloak comes off CD, but let’s leave this aside for a bit. in duels it’s ok to remove it with the cloak.
in bgs or arenas it’s 99% of the time absolutely retarded to do so. i’d rather a hunter see me and take me out of stealth than lose the precious 5 seconds of spell immunity vs everyone else.
any class that can counter rouges are welcome your class is so damn op having ultra cc ultra stun 2defrent kind of cc(blind sap if dont mention silnce and stun) having the most easy and annoying cc (Blind ) the most broken stun in the game (kidney 6sec setun only 20sec cd undispalable) with solid amount of surviveability plus the most insane burst dmg in the game oh sorry i forgot about smock bomb i mean your class have more utility than 2 or 3 class combined oh somthing else the best intrupt (5sec intrupt time of kick longest among all melee class) in the game lets not talk about your mobility i mean… it is so funny when a rouge complain about other class just enjoy your broken class and dont talk plz.
Make the Mark again with duration of 2 minutes and bring back remove traps and trap detect.
It was so much fun when a hunter goes out of his flare range Just to get sapped and i remove his trap.
Shaking head you really are this stupid ok, i am done with you.
il say it one time and that is it PVP is Balanced around 3v3 Not 1v1 Not 2v2 Not 5v5 Not BG at all what so ever.
This is from Watcher himself.
I do not pvp but you keep talking about battleground and that using examples where you have no one that can dispell you and then you talk about the extreme cases of 10-30min (the whole battleground is what you are going for)
Hey so you know this yet you keep talking about Battlegrounds.
It is funny though that you are crying like a baby about an ability that worked like this in the Whole of BFA and you did not complain about it then the only change is that it is baseline instead of a 0,5sec cooldown it has 1sec gcd and it no longer has a damage increase attached to it and it is no longer a talent.
You are a child but that is to be expected afterall you have zero actual real data to back up anything you say.
If you need to attack me as a person you have already failed the simple test of argument.
Hunter’s mark is clearly working as intended when it makes babies like yourself cry to mommy.
