This post on the US forum perfectly describes my current issues with holy paladin
People are complaining because, for the sake of casting, we lost everything else: mana efficiency, DPS, and free globals.
You can’t DPS because if you do, you will run out of mana halfway through a fight.
You are better off overhealing with infusions (when no one needs heals) for the sake of not running out of mana. You are actively punished for DPSing when no healing is required. You are better off removing crusader strike, judgment, and shield of the righteous from your bars than actively pressing them at any given time. That is bad gameplay design.
We actively ignore holy power half the time. We overcap and waste holy power so much with this rework. That is bad gameplay design.
Our mana has been nerfed so much that the only way the class survives is by being forced to take Inflorescence of the Sunwell which makes flash of light mana free. It’s not that flash of light is good. It’s that our mana costs are so high that we can’t take anything else. That is bad gameplay design.
People love to say “well this is how the class played in legion.” It didn’t. People forget holy power was removed in Legion and you could freely use word of glory/light of dawn every X seconds without worrying about mana, light of dawn stacks, holy power, etc.
Mana costs are higher. The spenders heal for less than ever. We can’t actively DPS because it impacts our ability to heal because of the mana. We are absolutely bottom of the barrel when it comes to both healing throughput and personal DPS.
It’s not about the fact that instead of healing through DPS we now cast to heal. It’s that blizzard broke almost every aspect of the spec.
If mana were manageable, if I could press my DPS buttons when I wanted too, if holy power mattered in any meaningful way, it wouldn’t matter to me (personally) whether I was casting or not. But that’s not the case.
The spec is broken, more so than pre-rework, and the casting shills are cheering at a (literal) dumpster fire because they can finally press 2 buttons to heal while ignoring the fact that 5 other buttons, our mana, and our combo point system (holy power) are in shambles.
Hpal nerfs, especially the 8% heal reduction overall which doesnt make the 10% word of glory buff meaningful, were useless.
They buffed others and nerfed pals so Pal is now low-end in M+ and they just made a big gap instead of letting Hpal like that and buffing slightly the others or buff hpal slightly while buffing the others like they did.
Also the hotfixed resto druid buff one week after 10.2 has shown that the balance lead plays druid because this is the reason they now do 150k steady dps.
Hpal now needs buffs, nothing else.
30-50% dps buffs, 20% heal buffs and mana reduction for holy shock, word of glory etc to be on par with Rdruid, Monk and Disc priest.
E.g.
All healing increased by 10%
Holy Shock healing increased by 20%
Holy Shock mana cost reduced to x %
Consecration Damage increased by 40%
Crusader Strike Damage increased by 30%
Personally I want mana cost of crusader strike, judgement and holy shock mana cost reduced and make holy power spenders free.
The current caster build is fine, i have no problems with it really it just saddens me that the other melee builds are not possible as of now due to the increased mana cost of crusader strike and holy power spenders.
I did not play the 10.1.5 paladin. I only played in S1 and begining of S2. And I was happy that when I feel like and I am pumped I could go with avneging crusade talent with its 45 sec CD micro managing my abilities to try to burst out as much heal as possoble while I am using wings or if I was feeling lazy I could just go with the normal wings talent with the 2 beacons and in m+ i played as right now tbh. I did not do much dps during dungeons. I was just standing away from mob packs the tank pulled and I was casting flash of lights and holy lights, but on bosses I was melee again, so for m+ i used a semi melee and caster build.
But right now only option you have is being a caster if boss fights are longer than 2 minutes. Melee builds and this new caster build in terms of power on the same level for atleast for me on the level I play. It just I would rather play with avenging crusade and spam crusader strikes and spend holy powers. But I cant. Spending holy power is burning mana and pressing crusader strike is burning mana.
In short make melee playstile mana regen to be on the same level as the current caster build. Thanks
Yeah there are some meaty damage buffs incoming, I guess I am hopping on my hpal for main instead of disc which they are nerfing. The resto druid nerfs also look bad.
they are not really meaty, because crusader strike accounts not for much damage overall and in its baseline already. HoW is better buff because of the talent choices combined with it though.
Mana buffs are welcome, even though it is not like u are really really struggling atm. But at least it now makes it feel better to not be draining on using these 2 abilities and be instead on a 0-0 outcome, so it just compensates with 0.6% the regeneration
It is almost the same as the crusader strike talent on the right talent tree, 25% damage buff, which is now baseline. The talent sucks, still is taken to have more SotR casts to deal damage because of the extra HP every 6 seconds, moreso about 10 seconds because of other needed GCDs. The other talent with 20% extra crit heal on holy shock and FL is way better for higher keys atm due to the nerfs.
You barely even use flash of light in high keys and holy shock has been heavily nerfed and put on charges. I’d take the damage and bonus holy power any day.
the damage bonus is negligible, holy power for more sotr, or WoG isnt, yes, but u also barely do crusader strike outside of boss low damage phases, because the trash hits. You throw flash of lights here and there out, about 1 every 15-30 sec, to save mana with infusion, to heal when not having WoG ready and holy shock is on cd anyway because used for dps. The important bart is the holy shock 20% heal for divine toll, and daybreak hs bursts, where u really need it. E.g. fall dragons fortified, tyrannical yulna in everbloom, third boss everbloom, etc etc.
u also dont CS when doing burst dps, because u use wrath and jujdgement when ready before, then daybreak burst with sotr inbetween or divine toll before on aoe trash to make the glimmers work. When being lightforged draenei u precast racial for 10-20% overall more dps - thats why lf draenei is best for offensive hpal, while e.g. dwarf is for defensive
Daybreak burst uses Glimmer power anyway, Divine Toll is nothing like it was in Shadowlands where it insta topped almost everyone. That’s why the other talent is better, especially with the upcoming buff.
divine toll is the same, holy shocks… it always tops off the whole group, when properly skilled, thats why u go BoV and then use Divine Toll first AoE Burst and Daybreak for second when healing AoE damage. The holy shock 20% talent just makes it way stronger, especially with wings due to more crit strike.
but in m+ u use it outside of these aoe inc damage for aoe, because of glimmer yes, especially because of 4 set. I explained the rotation above.
Almost a month and nothing happened to improve the situation.
While I dont have any mana struggles on high keys, 26 etc. I have heal scaling problems which are way better for other healers.
E.g. other healers have more baseline heal without any talent points needed.
Compare Flash of Light with the priests one. Priest needs for the same amount 60 ilvl (!) less. Shaman with Healing Surge almost the same.
Not just that. But one PW:Radiance heals substantially more (tops the group!) than one Divine Toll or Daybreak - even with BoV! (which is even further talented with increased holy shock heal 20% and 50% the lower the target is, among holy shock crit chance, so more than 3 talents and has 60 sec cd) on 15 sec cd. Even when u use DT or DB in Wings, the healing amount to PW:Radiance or even Chain Heal has to be chased…
And wings doing 15% is like the weakest 2min cooldown in the game.
Hpal Healing Scaling is a joke atm and it is on average like playing a 50 ilvl lower healer of the other classes, with higher cooldowns. Sure I CAN do 26 keys, but it is extremely more skillcapped than the other healers. That is also why there is currently a wide 99% of hpal playerbase that is seen as inferior to Rdruid and Disc in the acceptance to M+ groups. And I cant blame them. When I tank my high keys and invite hpals, they absolutely suck and dont know how to play this high skillcap spec.
Damage is on the highest keys “ok” though. It is when using data from different streamers not necessarily more than 20% lower than others, but this data is flawed and certainly is skill dependent and therefore the gap could be higher. Just having a premade to push worlds highest keys does not correlate with skill, as seen in the streams and the fail amounts or the voice chat of how much is lacking in general.
To add:
The 8% overall heal nerf with 10.2 was already very unnecessary, because heal already scaled worse than the others. And the others got bnuffed by a good 30% heal amount.
And the 8% nerf on everything did make the 10% WoG buff useless. Reducing 8 and giving 10 on the reduced amount is about the same outcome.
So they just nerfed heal so much, when it shouldve been buffed by 10%-15% when others get 30%