I Am Undead And I Need Help

[Distantpeak-argent-dawn (Distantpeak)]

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

“I do not wish to spend IRL money on outsourced canon books to be in the loop of the current lore”.

You can usually find the important parts out through Google or even asking for a summary here.

[Malunara-argent-dawn]

@Vixí-argent-dawn

San’layn since that was discussed earlier, are not regular darkfallen. They are a very specific group that are very specifically still loyal to the darker part of the Scourge and not friendly to either faction.

This doesn’t get talked about enough but I think it should.
Playing a Vampiric Darkfallen isn’t in itself a bad thing. Blood Death Knights and Hemomancers exist and are accepted. It’s the fact that people are so desperate to attach the name “San’layn” to it, which are decidedly a faction in and of themselves that align with the enemy of all life.

It’s like playing one of Garrosh’s Kor’kron and being shocked when a Darkspear doesn’t like you.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Malunara-argent-dawn

Playing a Vampiric Darkfallen isn’t in itself a bad thing. Blood Death Knights and Hemomancers exist and are accepted. It’s the fact that people are so desperate to attach the name “San’layn” to it, which are decidedly a faction in and of themselves that align with the enemy of all life.

WoW has quite alot of different vampiric aspects and characters so its weird that some people obsess so much over San’layn in situations where they simply dont work.

[Quillestra-argent-dawn]

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

You take a correct turn in the first half of the sentence and then you butcher the feedback that has been given to you to victimise yourself

I mean that the game is constantly changing and too many things are being added and deleted to ever allow anyone to claim that they are the ultimate masters of the one true lore. That being said, we are free to have our own headcanons that fit into the universe and help our characters come to life.

@Vixí-argent-dawn

San’layn since that was discussed earlier

San’layn. San’layn? Oh yes, San’layn. Also, San’layn. And in case you sonehow missed it, I’ll also mention San’layn.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

San’layn. San’layn? Oh yes, San’layn. Also, San’layn. And in case you sonehow missed it, I’ll also mention San’layn.

I will just refer to my earlier statement:

@Vixí-argent-dawn

With all respect, I think your own very snarky attitude doesn’t help people’s misconceptions and understandings of whatever point you are trying to bring across.

I have zero idea what it is you actually mean because of this attitude.

[Alannyse-argent-dawn]

@Malunara-argent-dawn

It’s the fact that people are so desperate to attach the name “San’layn” to it, which are decidedly a faction in and of themselves that align with the enemy of all life.

I personally can’t blame people too much for this either since up until 2022 with the release of Sylvanas’ little book, Darkfallen was synonymous with San’layn. Then it was changed from something that might have been the Common translation of San’layn to a generic term for all undead elves.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

San’layn. San’layn? Oh yes, San’layn. Also, San’layn. And in case you sonehow missed it, I’ll also mention San’layn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaU-G9I6S2M

[Quillestra-argent-dawn]

@Vixí-argent-dawn

I have zero idea what it is you actually mean because of this attitude.

Because it is always hard to argue in the situation where you’re “one against the world”, and it’s even harder when people twist your words and corrupt your arguments. We started out by duscussing the attitude of RPers towards all undead characters, and then it took a weird turn with people turning me into a villain, a San’layn, a pro-fel orc in the Alliance, an enemy of all life etc. And everybody now feels obliged to prove to me that one can’t play all that in serious RP. It’s hella annoying.

[Gabrindion-argent-dawn]

@Alannyse-argent-dawn

with the release of Sylvanas’ little book, Darkfallen was synonymous with San’layn. Then it was changed from something that might have been the Common translation of San’layn to a generic term for all undead elves.

Such a dumb move.

[Valteryl-argent-dawn (Valteryl)]

@Distantpeak-argent-dawn

You can usually find the important parts out through Google or even asking for a summary here.

Absolutely correct. Or if you have Telaryn quoting Shadows of the Horde and you just learn these novels by heart.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

to ever allow anyone to claim that they are the ultimate masters of the one true lore

Are you claiming to be one? If that’s the case gl then dying on this hill.

[Distantpeak-argent-dawn (Distantpeak)]

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

Or if you have Telaryn quoting Shadows of the Horde and you just learn these novels by heart.

Thats where the summary would likely come from.
There is much lore in that head.

[Syelia-argent-dawn]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

a pro-fel orc in the Alliance

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Half of Stormwind is these High Elves. Idk about y’all, but THIS is what breaks the immersion for me. Wherever I look I see High Elves and I find it annoying. A fel orc in the church is less strange to me than an overwhelming amount of “blue-eyed sindorei” fellas in the Alliance.

“I´m not defending Fel Orc in Cathedral of the Light, I´m just saying it breaks immersion less than high elves having larger percentage among RPers than in lore.”

Let me break this down to you:
Person 1 decides to RP a race that is enemy of the Alliance, in the middle of Alliance capital, while also walking into a place in it that would be even more hostile because of being a place of Light worship.
Person 2 decides to RP an Alliance race in the middle of Alliance capital, however as a result of popularity of this race, they contribute towards it being overrepresented in RP.

In your world, Person 1 is less immersion-breaking than Person 2, and you don´t understand why people might think you´re biased and defending Person 1 and their concept.
Dying on a hill really seems like a proper term here.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Because it is always hard to argue in the situation where you’re “one against the world”, and it’s even harder when people twist your words and corrupt your arguments.

Again, with all respect as I don’t think it is particularly nice to twist words in general, you have been quite confusing to follow since the start due to some weird ways of putting things and what I have already mentioned but will again, the apparent mixing between OOC and IC, even if not intentional. It’s not made it easy at times to make you understood as well as you perhaps would have wanted.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

We started out by duscussing the attitude of RPers towards all undead characters, and then it took a weird turn with people turning me into a villain, a San’layn, a pro-fel orc in the Alliance, an enemy of all life etc.

And this is where it hits again. Alot of people you have argued with do RP undead characters or having nothing against people rping them. I got nothing against undead characters OOC at all. It’s a part of WoW and they can be neat.

But this is the crux of it, because when someone has mentioned that they don’t think its great to see a certain undead character in a city where they in lore and in-universe would be generally disliked, or that their character wouldn’t like an undead, you have taken it as a direct personal offense to you and as if people have been saying that anyone who even roleplays an undead is inherently evil as a person.

You continue to atleast seemingly misunderstand and mix OOC opinions with IC and vice versa. It wasn’t the attitude of Rpers towards undead characters as it was characters ingame/IC views of undead characters.

It hasn’t helped that you with this has brought up various strange and pretty confusing concepts to try and…further justify your reasons which are very difficult to understand in the first place.

So to clarify again:

I the IRL person is perfectly fine with undead characters in general. I do however think that depending on what type of undead, they might not be suited to every location. An abomination(the big stitched ones) should not be in a Stormwind pub for example for any reason because it doesn’t fit the lore at all and in-universe, they are generally disliked by non-undeads due to their monstrous appearance and use as war machines.

My character Vixi, has a dislike for undeads because she doesn’t think it is a natural thing of existence.

It is two different things. Which you seem to confuse.

[Quillestra-argent-dawn]

Now I would really love to hear a word from Mr. Corpselord, the one who started this topic. They are probably regretting ever doing that at this point XD

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

I think they forgot this thread existed after their last reply.

[Dekarn-argent-dawn]

All of this has been a product of you just saying random nonsense because of your snarky attitude btw

This train will stop rolling as soon as you stop pushing it.

[Woebloom-argent-dawn]

So, Corpselord.
What we’ve learned from this thread is:

Horde are cooler for Undead.
If you’d rather be an Alliance race, I can only and reluctantly recommend seeking an Ebon Blade guild (jkjk but yknow its an option)

[Connal-argent-dawn (Connal)]

I have a high elf character. I roleplay him in Stormwind. I have a perfectly reasonable justification for this, with high elves having a canon population throughout Stormwind and many other Alliance territories. No lore gymnastics required to justify this, and it’s not at all comparable to fel orcs in the church, or San’layn in the city. (for the record I understood that you don’t play one, but it was brought up, so it’s on the table.)

Now, they’re supposedly a minority, which admittedly makes it a bit jarring when you see them occasionally outnumbering humans in taverns and other social spots (and I mean occasionally, because it doesn’t happen that much), but let’s keep something in mind.

The roleplaying population does not, and cannot be representative of the population in a given city. If you think too many elves are jarring, you also ought to be outraged by the vast amounts of mercenaries, wizards, priests, thieves, knights etc. Walk through Stormwind on any given day and you’ll see precious few peasants. And that’s okay! Roleplayers were never meant to be a realistic representation of a fantasy city, we make the characters we find interesting.

[Kivanthiel-argent-dawn]

Reading some of this thread has left me with an interesting question (primarily for the Forsaken/Undead RP community): Do/would you count Horde DK’s as Forsaken?

Im my mind the Forsaken are a political faction of Undead with free will that are aligned with the Horde,in opposition to the Scourge. Theoretically an Orc DK could become a member of the Forsaken without much issue if you follow this train of thought, but I have no experience with Forsaken RP.

[Dreadscorch-argent-dawn]

@Kivanthiel-argent-dawn

Do/would you count Horde DK’s as Forsaken?

They are very different things, like Dalus mentioned earlier. Death Knights are a very specific kind of undead that need to kill or cause extreme amounts of pain on a daily basis, or they go insane, lose their minds and start attacking everything in sight until they are killed or their hunger is sated.

Forsaken might be undead, but they don’t really have anything of the sort. They just have to deal with the trauma of having gotten killed and turned into undead (with the added part of having gone through the Third War if you aren’t a part of the few that were val’kyr raised or undead from corpses before the Third War), but it’s nothing like the eternal hunger.

Horde Death Knights can absolutely join the Forsaken, but it’s shown to be a completely optional thing. There are death knights of multiple races in the Horde outside of the Forsaken, and there are death knights of multiple races that have joined them, like Koltira and the orcish death knight that’s a part of the Deathguard that sells the Gladiator mounts in Orgrimmar.

[Malunara-argent-dawn]

The Battle for Andorhal questline that introduces Koltira as part of the Forsaken (for the 20 minutes that it’s true anyway) introduces him as “one of Sylvanas’ best Death Knights” which implies pretty heavily that he’s far from the only one.

I wouldn’t stop at Horde Death Knights, however. There’s nothing besides gameplay that implies that Alliance races didn’t also join those ranks, after all the only differences between your everyday Lordaeronian Forsaken and a Stormwindian Death Knight are technicalities, they’re both undead humans.
Granted, this needs to be seen before you can make that kind of a claim, and it doesn’t really impact RP since you can’t walk into Orgrimmar on your Dwarf Death Knight like it’s a regular Tuesday… But then again Night Elf Dark Rangers are consistently shown to be a part of the Forsaken despite their only playability being on the Alliance, so Death Knights aren’t that great of a stretch.