I Am Undead And I Need Help

[Dreadscorch-argent-dawn]

@Alannyse-argent-dawn

For years their only way of “recruiting” was to take a plague infected corpse and wait with the hopes whomever it was rose with their will intact.

Nah, that part isn’t actually true. Something people tend to forget as they take away Sylvanas’ words from the Silverpine questline is that, but she’s really saying that if they keep dying at that rate throughout all the war due to Garrosh’s decisions, they might run out of a standing army soon enough.

Forsaken recruit through mind freed undead, too. Your character in vanilla is literally recruited that way.

About time you woke up. We were ready to toss you into the fire with the others, but it looks like you made it.
I am Mordo, the caretaker of the crypt of Deathknell. And you are the Lich King’s slave no more.
Speak with Shadow Priest Sarvis in the chapel at the base of the hill, he will tell you more of what you must know.

Another of the walking dead, hm? Must have been quite a shock, waking up in the crypt with only the cold and Mordo to greet you…
I see the confusion on your face. Let me try to explain our… situation… to you.
We have been freed from the control of the Lich King by our new leader, Lady Sylvanas.
The Dark Lady guides us in our war against the hated Scourge and the holdouts of humanity who dog our every step.

(Quest name is Rude Awakening, it’s the first quest you do as a forsaken in Vanilla.)

[Mallory-argent-dawn]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Smart Lawful Good Knight of Light

finally a new TRP title

[Gabrindion-argent-dawn]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

When people keep bringing San’layn up they get too fixated on the name and miss the point

No, I think you are, completely and entirely.

[Raider-argent-dawn]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

These are not races, they are names of separate clans or whatever.

??

The San’layn are a racial subset of undead elves and undead elves alone. Don’t get me started on how many flavours of elf there are. They also had their own version of leadership, served the Lich King against the Forsaken/Horde/Alliance.

A bit of constructive criticism, when you’re trying to make a point never use

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

or whatever

because it comes across as uninformed.

[Baraghur-argent-dawn]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Again, how can you be a San’layn and a Forsaken at the same time? These are not races, they are names of separate clans or whatever. When people keep bringing San’layn up they get too fixated on the name and miss the point

Someone please correct me here or give me the context lost on me from recent lore changes I’ve not caught up with, but this is what I know from lore that I am familiar with.

“San’layn” are Vampyric (Not Vampires in the general fantasy sense) Darkfallen (Dead Elves). These Darkfallen consists of the Scourge San’Layn we all know, who tried to “join” the Horde during BFA, but were rejected/kicked out/killed because they were not trustworthy.

Beyond that, Darkfallen are also Dark Rangers (Undead Elven archer-fellows) who primarily served Sylvanas.

Is my lore so far correct? Because I fail to see how this would translate into anything Quillestra is arguing or trying to RP. They’re not a Dark Ranger, they’re a Vampire-wannabe that’s upset they aren’t welcome in city-RP because… They aren’t welcome, nor accepted. Not on Horde-side due to the BFA lore, and CERTAINLY not on Alliance/in Stormwind, because lmao.

So what is the point here?

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

These are not races, they are names of separate clans or whatever

This isn’t Vampire: The Masquerade. No matter how much San’Layn (E)RP’ers in Goldshire try to push for that setting in WoW. It’s not the same, it is not comparable, it doesn’t belong.

I’ve utterly lost the argument being made here, beyond it boiling down to petty semantics and what-aboutisms. What are you trying to argue? Please make it brief and concise.

Where in lore does it say San’Layn are welcome anywhere? Where in lore does it say they’re remotely accepted or part of anything?

Heck, even the Dark Rangers (Who are apparently Darkfallen, but not San’Layn so does it matter) are hardly tolerated, if at all, within city walls that isn’t (the now plague-bombed) Capital City (Lordaeron). What is the point here?

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Alannyse-argent-dawn

The Darkspears are so few in numbers they managed to fit onto the ships already carrying Thrall’s Horde across the seas, ships they stole from one human town. Their numbers are comparable to gnomes, which is simply “not as few as the high elves”. And that was before Zalazane betrayed them.

So few in fact that Vol’jin was able to personally memorise each and every single Darkspear troll and know them as individuals and learn their hopes and dreams. Vol’jin canonically knew who your Darkspear character was personally.

[Gabrindion-argent-dawn]

@Baraghur-argent-dawn

(Not Vampires in the general fantasy sense)

Don’t take this as me calling you out personally, but I keep seeing this statement floating around when discussing San’layn and it just doesn’t make sense to me.

San’layn are literal vampires. A quick look at Lana’thel’s abilities confirms this, not to mention Tenris.

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Gabrindion-argent-dawn

San’layn are literal vampires. A quick look at Lana’thel’s abilities confirms this, not to mention Tenris.

Lana’thel’s daughter is callied a literal vampire in the dungeon journal for Violet Hold too.

[Baraghur-argent-dawn]

Nah, no worries about the calling out part.

From what I understand and remember, WoW’s angle on “Vampirism” (stemming as far back as the non-canon RPG) is basically draining the blood/essence/soul/whatever of something. In the sense of San’layn (once again, from how I understand the lore, I may be 100% wrong here), San’Layn are just blood-drinking/essence consuming Elves.

They’re not Vampires in the sense of other fantasy media, but have a lot of overlap. But for San’Layn they drink blood for the thrill, it doesn’t seem to be vital to their survival or power-level. It’s an aesthetic, more so than actual Vampirism.

Now if the criteria for being a “vampire” is just to drink blood in general? Then sure, they’re vampires. But I can go drink someone’s blood right now, does it make me a vampire IRL? This isn’t some petty “gotcha”, but a genuine counter-question regarding what defines vampires.

Do they need to turn into bats? Have super-strength/speed/reflexes? Sparkle in the sun like that one book series?

(Extra note: It does not seem to “spread” either when they drink someone’s blood like common vampirism/diseases. They just drink up, and you probably die or you’re left to do whatever. All they seem to be are dead Elves who enjoy drinking blood, AKA Blizzard hasn’t really figured out what to do with them yet beyond “oh look, dead elf vampires” from WOTLK)

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

When people keep bringing San’layn up they get too fixated on the name and miss the point

The forsaken specifically is an umbrella turn for the ex-scourge undead that regained their will initially during the story of warcraft 3: tft as told in the undead campaign and joined under Sylvanas’ banner to seek vengeance against the lich king.
Any undead who joined them after that initial founding are also called forsaken. It’s like a nationality almost.

San’layn specifically are undead elves (darkfallen) who were infused with… I’m guessing blood magic to become these vampire-esque beings (they’re more like undead blood mages imo, something most vampires in the originating mythos are not) and to serve the lich king and the scourge.
They tried to join the forsaken after the Lich King fell, but were due to certain events judged by the forsaken to be untrustworthy or incompatible with the forsaken as a whole…

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Blizzard have added so much random stuff recently without bothering to provide comprehensive guidelines for it (yes, undead Kal’dorei, I’m looking at you, not to mention Darkfallen Void Elves, bruh) that we inevitably have to make something up ourselves.

Blizzard is the ones litterally making and writing this universe. They are the ones who can decide what to add and works. And they have provided some guidelines to what works still or not. You just need to look and do a bit of thinking over the possibilities.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

human librarian

A human working with books is not comparable to undeads, what is this even meant to be?

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

or a troll voodoo master

Depends on the situation. Voodoo is a core part of troll culture. So within the Horde or a troll community, a witch doctor/voodoo master makes perfect sense in the Horde. It would not in the Alliance though as Trolls have never had a good relation with them.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

an undead suddenly not?

You are missing the point here. Your average undead is fine. (Depending on the situation). Among the Horde, most undead are accepted. Among the Alliance, Death Knights are atleast tolerated. It depends on the type of undead and context.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Then the gnome dude will appear

Please do not call me “dude”. But otherwise, I appear.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

tell me that it’s strictly IC!! But here I’ve seen many people who call undead players “snowflakes, edgy kids, etc.” Just accept the fact that some people love this race and play it

No, this is not a strictly IC situation, but you are again seemingly misconceiving things. Primary that the comment made of being “snowflake” very specifically & obviously referred to a single type of undead. No one is calling all undead players those things.

[Dreadscorch-argent-dawn]

@Alannyse-argent-dawn

The Forsaken, along with being a whole cadre of non-human undead, were originally a fraction of Lordaeron’s pre-war population risen into undeath who managed to have their free will restored. For years their only way of “recruiting” was to take a plague infected corpse and wait with the hopes whomever it was rose with their will intact.

My comment seems to have gotten ashed (for some reason???) so, I’ll say it again, and briefer. It’s not the only way they’ve been recruiting whatsoever. The way your forsaken gets recruited in vanilla, and the predominant way they’ve always been recruiting, is mind-freed undead.

In the quest ‘Rude Awakening’, it’s shown that the Forsaken take mindless undead enmasse to Deathknell, and do something (what exactly isn’t specified) in hopes that they are mind freed, with those that didn’t make it being chucked into the fire; or take in undead that have already been mind freed.

@Alannyse-argent-dawn

With the coming of the Val’kyr, who are now gone again, the OG Forsaken are probably outnumbered by those who have been risen since. They lost the Undercity, many remained loyalists.

Val’kyr are useful, yes, but mostly due to the fact that the Alliance was trying to invade Lordaeron in Cataclysm, and the fact that Garrosh was keen on bashing their entire army against a wall, quite literally so, while they were already fighting the Alliance that was advancing as deep as Andorhal; and there were just nine of them, all of which served Sylvanas directly, all of which are dead as hell now.

People really understate just how many large the population of the forsaken are, by a mile. Not only did they recruit undead in a world where bodies can remain intact as far as 30 years rotting on the ocean floor, the Scourge turned an entire kingdom that was large enough to have its subcontinent named after it.

Stormwind right now still only has one city, Lordaeron before the Third War had three entire, full-fledged cities; alongside the size of the country I have just mentioned, and how they accept mind-freed undead in a world where the Lich King’s crown has just gotten disenchanted for 2x servings of Strange Dust.

I would say that the calamity to be spoken about when it comes to forsaken is less the fact that they have had a lot of them die over wars against their enemies, but more so the fact that an entire kingdom (and many large chunks of others) got massacred by the Scourge when they were alive.

[Gabrindion-argent-dawn]

I think another defining vampire trait that often gets overlooked is the ability to turn others into vampires, something Lana’thel can do aswell.

[Quillestra-argent-dawn]

@Vixí-argent-dawn

Blizzard is the ones litterally making and writing this universe. They are the ones who can decide what to add and works.

Logic: Blizzard are the ones who made Darkfallen Blood and Void Elves playable, I am the one who’s the lore-breaker and a Snarky San’layn Biker ERP’er in Goldshire for wanting to play them ever since I discovered W3 in 2013.

[Gabrindion-argent-dawn]

But you can roleplay San’layn! It’s just a matter of - for the hundredth time - doing it in the appropriate setting.

[Baraghur-argent-dawn]

Edited my comment right before I saw your reply, sorry. Can they actually spread “vampirism” to others? And what’s the context since I have zero memory of it.

I do remember a few points throughout WOTLK where they “eat” someone (even the player in the spider dungeon) and that never makes you a vampire. I am somewhat confused.

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Logic: Blizzard are the ones who made Darkfallen Blood and Void Elves playable, I am the one who’s the lore-breaker and a Snarky San’layn Biker ERP’er in Goldshire for wanting to play them ever since I discovered W3 in 2013.

Stop with the petty “gotchu” takes. You’ve lost us all on your original point and now it’s just a salty tirade when people call you out for being wrong (God knows what even was the original argument)

Just make the point you wanna make, or dip. This is just a sad hill to die on.

[Woebloom-argent-dawn]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Logic: Blizzard

With the greatest respect: “Logic” and “Blizzard” don’t belong in the same sentence.

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Baraghur-argent-dawn

They’re not Vampires in the sense of other fantasy media, but have a lot of overlap. But for San’Layn they drink blood for the thrill, it doesn’t seem to be vital to their survival or power-level. It’s an aesthetic, more so than actual Vampirism.

Blood-Princess Thal’ena is the daughter of the powerful vampyr Blood-Queen Lana’thel. She has been locked inside Violet Hold for years, suffering the gnawing pain of her eternal hunger. Now that her cell has opened, she intends to feed on the world.

She also has an ability called Vampyr’s Kiss which afflicts players with vampirism. The description for the debuff says “You are infused with the blood of the Vampyr Princess.” and once it expires, you become one of her followers.

Moreover there’s Blood-Thane Lucard in Stormheim who’s also called a literal vampire, and he infects pirates who made the mistake of opening his tomb with vampirism. Vampirates.

[Vixí-argent-dawn (Vixí)]

@Quillestra-argent-dawn

Logic: Blizzard are the ones who made Darkfallen Blood and Void Elves playable, I am the one who’s the lore-breaker and a Snarky San’layn Biker ERP’er in Goldshire for wanting to play them ever since I discovered W3 in 2013.

I mean, what do you want me to say to that? I don’t think you’re some kind of bike erper for wanting to play a certain way.

The snarkyness, I do think is there yes mainly with responses like this. Lore-breaker, I don’t know? I don’t know how you are roleplay, I thought we were arguing possibilities.

As Gabrindion said:

@Gabrindion-argent-dawn

But you can roleplay San’layn! It’s just a matter of - for the hundredth time - doing it in the appropriate setting.

You can roleplay most things, just do it in the proper setting.

[Quillestra-argent-dawn]

But a San’layn is an enemy by the name, you can’t be a member of the two factions at the same time, lol