This. I played classic and realised that it was purely nostalgia addiction. There is way too many QoL improvments and things I prefer in retail to going back to a bug filled 10yr old interpretation of the current game. Playing classic made me remember just ahow bad some aspects of it were, and how I was simply remembering the good stuff and ignoring the bad stuff.
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I donât see any problem with that. If people want to play classic thats fine, I donât want any of it in retail though.
I truly do not care.
Why though? They have 1000 gimmick versions of it. Just do idk HC/SoD TBC or something.
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Of course itâs debatable. Donât confuse your opinion with fact. Whatâs more fun or less fun is not objective, though there are trends; after all humans are humans - as alike as we are diverse.
I completely disagree with you, and Iâm not the only one. Retail combat is a disastrously mishandled, confusing mess where nobody can see whatâs happening and why. Itâs packed full of micro-CCâs and insanely powerful crowd controls that allow you to lock down whole groups of enemies for so long they die outright to it. What we often do in M+ is almost tantamount to an AoE stunlock - and the damage against tanks mean almost nothing because tanks can self-heal as well as a healer can.
On top of that, most entities in the game, just fighting 3-5 players in a dungeon or an arena, will have 30-40 buffs and around 10 debuffs up for most of the game, making it almost impossible to use these displays to tell the state of the game - which is a real shame, because the combat visuals arenât doing it either.
Most classes have a major cooldown that increases the playerâs power between 50 and 100%, and therefore it must always be traded for a similarly powerful defensive. These defensives also go into M+ and, because they are so powerful, must be traded precisely with enemy attacks.
It is not uncommon for classes to have over 20 cooldowns to track because of this, and the whole thingâs as rigid as plank. You have almost no effective, tactical, moment-to-moment choices because almost all the resource systems are broken as well in favour of a super rigid rotation that only changes up due to its own procs - and all things shall be traded precisely. Rogues with 350 energy, mages who donât spend their mana pools, hybrids who do use mana for heals but they donât do anything without CDâs so it makes no difference. Everythingâs a proc. It all comes down to who executes best and whoâs lucky.
On top of that, the game can tend to lag or have low FPS because there are so many spell effects and numbers flying across the screen, most of which you have no time to read at all, that the computer often literally canât keep up. Even a 7800X3D cannot save you from raid lag, and God forbid what happens when you turn off the spell effect pruning (which often doesnât even work).
The result of all this confusion, spam, visual noise, and poorly communicated combat state is WeakAuras and addons galore. Everybodyâs getting them just to play the game. Just about the only thing in the whole game which is managing to telegraph its actions properly are the bosses and trash mobs. Everything else is a total mess.
Yeah, haha. No. Nononono. It needs a good old fashioned spring cleaning.
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Well the problem is that eventually classic will catch up too retail⌠It will no longer be classic. And classic players will eventually have too rejoin us all in retailâŚ
Okey
âŚOkey I swear when you see me post you just go to sleep thinking ââHow can I argue with skullfox today?ââ What the hell even is this?
The problem with this is that Cataclysm is actually worse for this, and a lot worse. I am a Classic player primarily now, Iâve played it as my main version since the build up to TBC Classic, Iâve cleared every raid and dungeon countless times. I also have 2x lvl85 Warriors in Cata geared in Heroics, ilvl350 each. I also played M+ last season in DF to around 3k rating and cleared the raid many times on 2 chars, legendary axe included.
In retail every mechanic is telegraphed well, and there is consistency between boss to boss and dungeon to dungeon, you can mostly tell just from the game visuals if something is good, bad, if something is a player spell or a boss ability. Itâs not perfect, there are issues, but there is a system and format to it.
NOT IN CATACLYSM - There is so much visual clutter itâs unbelievable, player spells being way over the top and covering huge parts of the screen, even hiding boss abilities. Itâs impossible to tell what is a player ability or a boss ability without investigating and figuring out every one, half the time youâre taking damage from things you either straight up canât see, or is completely mismatched with the visual effect side⌠In Cataclysm you have to learn to spot grains of sand in a soup, and everything is just a giant soup of lighting effects and textures, itâs a complete mess.
When I had my I7 6700K I had far worse performance raiding Ulduar in WOTLK Classic than I had raiding in retail. Retail generally has been better optimised, and donât get me started with trying to play Wintergrasp in WOTLK Classic, it was like watching a slideshow with unbelievable server lag.
I have a 7800x3D now, which fixed my problems of major stuttering and low fps on Algalon in particular (I can link you twitch clips showing how bad it was if you donât believe me), but I never had issues with Retail to begin with, it has always been more optimised than Classic.
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Not if they stop making them. I mean I truly do not believe anyone is going to be excited for WoD, BfA or SL classic. Imo Cata Classic is too far. Like I said, they should just do the gimmick version of the already existing ones.
No seriously, why do Blizzard need to âreunite usâ? There is a reason we are split. 1 group prefers the game 1 way and the other the exact opposite. Apparently the gimmicks are profitable and people that are interested in classic seem to enjoy them, so why continue with expansions that we all know will just lose that audience instead of focusing on what worked before? Hell why not just slap an expansion fee or something and get budget to develop proper expansions for classic with the classic philosophies?
Like I said⌠Eventually they will run out of gimmicks⌠they will run out of classic too make for classic fansâŚ
And classic fans need new content as well⌠Also i just dont think its healthy for our game to split our playerbase up into several versions of the game⌠Eventually they have too reunite us⌠Retail should be for everyone⌠it should be a place where everyone has fun and wants too play⌠Classic fans and retail fans alike.
At least in my opinion
Itâs not as split as you you think. Majority is playing retail and Blizzard have said that there is very little overlap between classic and retail players.
Absolutely not. If you try to please everyone you please no one. Classic players do not like retail and retail players do not like classic , the middle ground will just be abysmal for everyone.
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If you say soâŚ
I hope your right.
I always feel weird when someone says that.
Iâd never figured it out if I didnât know some of the vanilla devs and they literally told me. They also published it a few places; John Staats and Mark Kern being particularly famous examples. Or just listening to BlizzCon 2005.
Nobody else seemed to figure it out either. A thousand âWoW killersâ spawned but none of them had any idea why WoW works. They just knew they liked it and created something similar.
And I do really think about vanilla a lot in this context because although it is very imperfect, it beautifully captures some core concepts that are important to MMORPGâs which have been lost.
Retail does a really good job at telegraphic boss attacks, but the player characters are a mess. Shifting Power makes so much noise I literally have to move while casting it not because I need to move, but because I canât see voidzones under me if I donât. 
Cata is worse at boss telegraphing, but the classes telegraph much better. However, I would argue that Wrath and tBC do it even better, but theyâre not available any more, soâŚ
Thatâs very peculiar. I also had a 6700K back in the day and that has got to be the worst CPU ever made. It was⌠âfineâ when it came out, but over time it got nerfed by like 40% in order to fix bugs in its branch prediction engine until there was barely anything left of itâŚ
Anyway, if I enable all spell effects in a raid on retail, my FPS drops to below 30, but can hit above 200 when flying above or moving through The Azure Span. Think that about sums it up.
Your one of the adults on the forums. Everything you say is sensible and logical and make sense and are based in facts⌠I know a smarter poster when I encounter one xDâŚ
Your doing good Ishayo
Could hate the vulpera a little less though<.<
I mean World of Warcraft optimisation and performance has always been bad, but in my experience it got worse with Classic, particularly WOTLK Classic, which is crazy because I played the same game on a very dated PC in 2008-2010, with often better performance. When Cataclysm came out my performance started to suffer, then in summer 2011 I bought a new PC, I7 2600k based, performance was great then and ran that until it died just after legion launched.
Ran the replacement until last year. Retail was running great, WOTLK Classic very inconsistent, some points of Ulduar were barely playable. I think Blizzard have gotten better at performance optimisation over time, but I think that doesnât extend to when they port old expansions to retail, given that a computer that was top of the line in 2016 was struggling to run a game from 2008.
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Good. You enjoy it, you got classic. Stay there.
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No they do not.
They are 2 different products, aimed at 2 different target audiences.
Players that enjoy retail playstyle and content, does not enjoy classic, and classic players do not play retail for a reason.
Itâs ok to take lessons from one to use in the other (season of discovery and DF talent trees), but you cannot apply them without considering the context.
Eventually though⌠Classic is going too stop being classic isnt it? âŚits going to catch up too retail⌠And then what?
Thats why the way I see it⌠eventually blizzard has too reunite us.
Classic is classic servers. Even if blizz tries to make âclassic bfaâ and âclassic SLâ, classic players will not play those.
They are different games with different philosophies. There is a reason retail players were not playing in private servers back in 2015, and why those playing in private servers were not playing retail.
If you try to âreuniteâ those 2 groups, all you are gonna do is lose one of them. This is why it makes sense to have different game modes.
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I think the level 10 is to high nerf level 1 2 3 4 5 6, 6 is most.
My bet is that they are going to be lose both groups. Do people forget that both BfA and SL had what Blizzard claimed to be âclassic philosophiesâ in regards to spec swaping restrictions. And lets not forget about the covenant fiasco which was again the âmeaningful choiceâ classic players (and streamers) were pushing. Obv these are very bad examples and can be chucked into the âBlizzard donât know what they are doingâ folder, but do people honestly think that this company will know how to merge both version into something most of us want (and again both groups seem to want polar opposite things so gl with that).
Imo they should just do different servers for each of the expansions and be done with it. Yes the playerbase will be even more âsplitâ but at least everyone will be playing their favorite version. Throw in some weird Season of hardcore whatever as well.
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I actually donât. xD
Iâm just not one of the adults on the forums.
If there has ever been an appropriate use of the âtrollingâ report feature, that one wouldâve been it. xâD
I think all those of us who played back then will remember Laggrimar, Lagaran and Shattlag and all these other names.
The reason for this is that Blizzard had placed a lot of important functionality for every character inside a very small space and left no real alternatives, resulting in truckloads of players in a single spot and the game just couldnât handle that.
That was a game design mistake, 100%. Vanilla isnât perfect by any means - but itâs also a design mistake that materialised as a result of WoWâs core design pillars - the sense of world and community and the systems backing that were enabling this problem.
So Blizzard ripped out the whole system (except on AD, where it remains) instead of finding other means of spreading players out.
In this case however, I find it hard to argue how the game improves from Mutilate runnng 10+ proc checks, applying 6 debuffs, and causing 6+ damage events (2 attacks, 4 poison damage hits, weapon or trinket proc effects). I mean, originally this ability was designed to improve proc rates on hit, but then they normalised trinket procs, added even more poisons equippable at once, and now itâs just spam. It doesnât do anything.
It already has. Classic Cata isnât Classic. Heck, it barely even resembles the original Cataclysm. Itâs also not very popular.
Claiming that SL and BfA follows Classic design principles is laughable.
But youâre right, they did.
I was following Kevin Jordan (guy whose name appears in the name of the item Jordan Staff) at the time and he was dying inside.
Hereâs a non-exhaustive list of what he was angry in BfA - and he couldnât even level to max because he got so bored:
- Bad itemization, especially Azerite Power + multiple item level versions of the same item
- Mob scaling
- Dailies. He hates dailies.
- Chores, aka weekly or daily lockouts with lasting consequences for not doing them
- Useless professions
And with Shadowlands I could see the soul leaving his body when he saw Asmon playing the tutorial island Exileâs Reach. Having helped create how a player learns abilities for levelling and how to introduce classes for players in the first 20 levels, you could just see his despair.
He basically said something like this:
- It blocks your path if you donât understand something
- It isnât immersive
- It doesnât teach you anything about your race or history
- It doesnât have any faction vibe (both factions play out the same way)
- It overexplains things that mostly donât need an explanation anyway
- When he left the island, standing in front of Stormwind, he bemoaned how the location he was placed at took away the majesty of that moment
- Said his items were insanely powerful compared to what came before it
He was also sad about a variety of other things; especially how abilities just appeared on your bar and how quickly he was getting them. He was feeling overwhelmed
I donât think Iâve ever seen a person so devastated. He was in disbelief. He wasnât outwardly hostile or anything, but you could see it on his faceâŚ
Here are some videos of him and Asmon reacting to one another. Please just try to get over the fact that Asmon is involved. Thatâs not why I want you to watch it.
There is also a video of Kevin playing it himself, but I canât find it.
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