Never played anything as dull as this… Not excited for it at all… And on top of it we have to farm 40 renown in 2 weeks by spamming heroic Plaguefalls.
But guess Blizz’ shareholders are happy cause more ppl are “playing” /clap
…
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Also at this point I don’t see how it is a meaningful choice if we are dependent on devs who roll some dices to buff random covenants.
I’ll just stay night fae and cry on the forums till they buff it again.
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Convoke is also extremely uninteresting. I mean it’s definitely a “feel good” ability. It feels good to do big damage and people confuse this with the ability being interesting. But convoke is just an automated button you press with no special context other than pairing it with CA.
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Since when was having a “feel good” ability a bad thing…
Ye, les replace a feel good ability with something that feels like utter trash to play with - see the problem? 
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No I totally get it. And I never said that a “feel good” ability is a bad thing. My point was simply that Convoke is hardly an interesting ability. So I don’t agree that Venthyr is anymore “dull” than Night Fae. You can easily argue that Venthyr provides a much more engaging playstyle than what you get with Convoke. But I completely understand that Convoke is an ability that feels good to press when you look at the dps meters. The problem is that this is not actually based on the design of the ability itself but more based on the fact that it’s overtuned and does big numbers.
Not really… Still CA and mastery stacking is overtuned. Also it is a game in the end and it should be fun to press buttons.
I remember that I had most fun playing resto when we could use tranquility while moving. I was having a blast playing this style.
Today WoW is only about minmaxing and number optimizing and sims… Sometimes I prefere simple but fun mechanics. That’s all
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I completely understand you. A lot of players have more fun when they can enjoy a more simple gamestyle. This is also why BM hunter is such a popular spec. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Most people would probably prefer if they could do AOE by pressing only one button. If you asked Assassination Rogues if they wanted a button that would automatically apply all their bleeds to all target most Rogues would probably say yes please.
I’m just against people arguing that Night Fae Druid is somehow a more interesting than Venthyr Druid. Because that’s absolutely not true. Fair enough if you find simple abilities more fun, but that doesn’t mean the ability is more interesting.
I have no problems with enjoying a difficult rotation, or having things iterate in interesting ways with eachother if infact they ARE interesting/fun!
But the venthyr ability just feels dog to use. Maco it with your CA, use wrath to fill, dont cap AP and use SS’s as close to end of the buff as possible… ZZZzzz boring AF imo.
Sure convoke isnt mechanically difficult at all - but it feels fun to use it, and you dont have to macro it to your other cooldowns, depends on fight length… and you can use it in the other druid speccs if you want…
Dont know why I even bother posting here, not like blizz ever takes these forums serious anymore… Game is dying and the devs cba to interact with players to find out why… Its more interaction with the playerbase on classic tbc
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I agree, hate Venthyr too. I think knowing Blizzard it was inevitable with covenant system design, that they will go round in buffing/nerfing each patch to make best covenenats bad in next patch (despite all your time invested in legos/covenant buildings/command table/etc.). Probably the answer is to switch to a new class if the hatred to venthyr is too much - because Blizzard will not make another tunning to make Night Faes superriority back.
Sometimes when we complain about class design, I just think we should stop up and consider why an ability like Convoke feels fun to use. Because objectively it’s very simple.
Would Convoke feel fun to use if it hit like a wet noodle? I doubt it. And by that we have to realize that the “fun feeling” is more based on having a simple access to big numbers than it is on the actual design of the ability.
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Then just… don’t play Venthyr ?
I mean please, the only niche where convoke performed well was single target burst.
Nearly every other class got bigger numbers in m+.
Ele untouched, shadow untouched but because some people cried about problems which never existed except for pvp they nerfed NF.
Moonkin hasnt been fun to play since Legion. i still have one, but i dont bother, clunky and boring playstyle.
TBC/Wotl moonkin was the best. U used spells based on what suited u. not what a buff or eclipse bar told you. unless they remove eclise system i will never go back to this boring clown spec.
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Current boomkin is very fun to play, although I prefer convoke style over Venthyr, even if it has 500 less dps.
But considering how inconsistent venthyr is in raid environment (like when you remember last time you could just stand and turret fire boss for 40s?).
Convoke is less punishing, easier to use. And also NF is better to multi-spec.
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I agree entirely… Also I don’t get all the doomsayers. Overall on WCL Boomies are just bottom because roughly 50% of boomies switched already and venthyr without legendary is doing less dmg, which is putting us down.
I stay NF as it is less error prone and there is no way sinful will be ignored during upcoming tuning hotfixes.
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Now when they nerfed the boat we actually see how undertuned the spec is compared to others. All damage was tied boat + convoke/incarnation. Add the nerf to solstice and the change to sotf talent. They kinda killed everyone who doesn’t want to play venthyr. How about making small nerfs instead of such a big one?
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I agree, compared to other classes NF boomies have to play like a hurricane bashing every button to not miss a single cd to produce competible numbers. Especially m+ is tremendously harder than getting good numbers on my DK or mage.
Buff NF or nerf venthyr but don’t come again with your meaningful whatever if there is no choice to begin with because one covenant is overpowered
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Play for fun, not to minmax
-Grovi
The difference between NF and Venthyr is only big enough to affect the min-maxers. And the Venthyr ability is more difficult to play around because it requires careful timing, while convoke (in the words of one of the guide writers) ‘is a lot of front loaded burst that requires 0 brains to execute’.
This gonna be a rather long reply and I expect a couple of “salty Nightfae moonkin whining in the forums” comments for it. Going to post it anyways:
I’m not switching covenant, even though it might mean ranking close to tanks in damage for the next few weeks and getting categorily declined by M+ pugs. My opinion on overall Blizzard actions aside (and believe me I’m FUMING), I’m not going to draw conclusions until gear levels have improved and the covenant campaign has progressed far enough to actually see the final result. Blizzard told players the covenant choice would be free without major negative effects in performance related to personal choice. If that was a flat out lie and they keep ruining the user experience based on swinging the nerf hammer everytime a covenant class enjoys themselves too much, they rightfully lose players to FF14 and I’ll be sitting in the heart of the forest watching it from afar with a “told y’all” as the only response to their self-made crisis.
See and that’s the point. It’s almost like devs don’t want balance players to have fun. I’ve been playing this spec since BC and know that expansions in which they set mastery a secondary stat always have been the worst for the class experience. And I agree with you that a certain level of freedom was the basic charm of playing the class until they mutilated it into oblivion. Only positive thing about the recent nerf is the damage boost to star fall which pretty much went like shadow priest aoe after WotLK with both being a joke in the end. Although shadow aoe surely has been the bigger joke there tbf.
I never got that logic about “forced” solar eclipse either. Why force a solar based duration that makes half of your rota when a moonkin by class default is bound to the moon? Does fire mage have to go through an ice phase? Shadowpriest waiting for some “holy light” phase to end? Warlock getting his demon pet removed every 25 seconds and replaced by a bunch of cherubim trumpeting at his mischievous face?
I really do mean that Blizzard took the wrong path with over and over trying to “highlight the balance in balance” by implementing yet another castrating regulation to the moonkin rota. We balance the gameplay enough already by co-healing in dungeons and raids, br-ing, innervating, soothing, dispelling, rooting and sun beaming. If asked nicely, we even switch talent to Force of Nature when the tank ain’t sh** and needs a bunch of wooden punching bags to be on the safe side. Even though this means we have to start at zero astral power all dungeon long which crucially affects our damage performance by a longer ap built-up time.
We are the one’s that willingly sacrifice our dps as the ranges we’re actually supposed to be and help the group instead with a bunch of actions no one recognises nor appreciates but comments with your average “lol n00b l2p” whisper after the dungeon. In which we would’ve performed way better if the tank knew how to prevent adds running lose and we had just let that hater wanking off in our dms die on his movement fails instead of even cr-ing him.
Playing moonkin has always been an unthankful job with a lot of frustrating moments while adapting frequent changes to your rota. Once we fiballt felt comfortable, the next big nerf was just ahead and that’s not what makes a game fun to play in long term really. Yet we still are the one’s that don’t hesitate to ruin our eclipse bonus for the sake of group success, even though this means to switch out of moonkin form whilst moon eclipse several times during a boss fight just to compensate some healers low performance.
There you have your balance. And convoke actually contributed to this if used wisely, so the argument
is only half as true. Sure, it was fun to finally have a spell that promotes actual moon powers during eclipse and for once lets you relax a bit in fight instead of having to run the strict sequence dictatorship Blizzard has forced the spec into over the years. It was fun to have a powerful spell that can be easily applied while moving, to. I mean, no one ever complained about hunters having no moving restrictions, right? Also nice to not waste a sh** load of astral power on star fall by casting it seperately, so why not? Said aoe as part of convoke spells btw is the reason you can’t use convoke in every situation anyways since it breaks cc.(#Altimor) Also fires quite random at times, so using it without care or using it without minding “special context to it” would mark you the dumbest balance druid on the NF squad really.
Besides that, convoke also helps the group in critical phases. IF played with timing. Against the common belief in here, the NF ability not only means blasting 16 dmg spells in an outburst of dmg frenzy whenever you feel like it. It also incorporates healing spells like wild growth, which can save lives in raid and dungeons if the group is low on hp and healers struggle to compensate. More group relevance than I can detect in other covenant abilities, so why would you condemn that? Wanna wipe faster and have less options to turn a difficult situation around or what?
Convoke in case of balance druid never really was about boosting moonkin dmg only but balance the overall group performance in tricky situations. And everyone playing M+ on high level and raiding often or paying attention enough to witness the difference this spell can make, knows it. You could even use it as a sole healing boost if activated out of boss range. Because then it would only cast healing spells in your surrounding area. With forcing balance druids to switch covenant for the sake of a sole dmg ability, you are stripping yourself off support by making them leave behind a potent group support spell. Left aside the fact, that Venthyr simply doesn’t fit the moonkin concept. It completely contradicts Blizzard’s oh so ambitioned efforts to “make the balance druid stay in character / line” with every nerf they threw out in the past.
Fact is, Blizzard has no clue where to take the balance spec and rather shows (over)reactionary behaviour whenever another class is complaining about “boomie being too strong” or they feel like nerfing the class hard fits their content agenda. Moonkins losing Elune’s blessing as rp reference following up the Tyrande vs Sylvanas cinematic? Fine. Reducing the overall dps performance a bit to silence the crybabies and punish show-offs like the 28 moonkin raid on Nathria / star fall / stealth attack on Orgrimmar? Ok. But making a class that has worked their a** off during the past expansions adapting to one harsh change after another fall from a hardly achieved top dps ranking to a raid meme ranking below the tanks if they refuse to switch covenant? That’s not balancing powers. That’s just humiliation of players really and I hope Blizzard will feel the backlash hard.
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