Yeah super solution from you. The loot scarcity is already fd up. I liked that you can farm your gear for the raid in m+. The only thing that should not exist is the jailer weapon because m+ only player will never see it
Ishayo, you know damn well that no one really cares about the piece of gear itself, but only care about the actual set bonus, not the set piece. That’s just armor and could be replaced with anything else if it didn’t have the set bonus on, if you wanted. Just like in bfa, and the start of shadowlands, you had a tier set with no actual set bonus, did people complain about the lack of gear? Or the lack of the set bonus?
Now, unless you wanna have an actual honest conversation you can stay, otherwise just get out.
You are trying to get a certain answer out of me that agrees with your points, but i don’t, i don’t think your whole idea about gear complexity actually makes the game more fun, or interesting or engaging, and it’s arguable that it makes it more complex since all it does is lock down some gear slots, so if anything it makes it less complex, because you already know that those pieces will be locked.
Where exactly is it more complex? No one knows, or can actually explain. But i’m supposed to believe it.
All it does is shuffle around some gear, you’re still simming probably, unless you just don’t do that, so you already make a decision on which piece of gear you wanna use.
Not very friendly, are we?
You don’t get to decide where I add comments, and I certainly am not trying to troll you. I’m simply pointing out that your idea deletes item sets.
You now go on to argue that actually you don’t like item sets as a concept. Alright, that’s fair, but I don’t think that’s a very popular point of view. I do agree with you, however, that the decision points that are suppoed to appear are very brief or not there at all due to the amount of power item levels give you and the amount of difficulties. There is no set bonus that can make up for 26 item levels, which is the difference in items from the same difficulty for two different sets. That’s a problem.
I suggest perhaps the solution to that is to have multiple competing sets, maybe filling out different slots but some slots overlap, etc. - but you clearly don’t like that. That’s fine, our opinion differs, but that doesn’t mean I’m not having an honest conversation. I just think your idea is boring; it takes out sets, effectively.
And yeah, simming is a plague, but perhaps some of these gameplay altering items should be things that cannot be simmed because they don’t actually add damage if just standing still and hitting a dummy, but do add damage in practice? A simple example is movement speed but there is great room for creativity.
“You now go on to argue that actually you don’t like item sets as a concept”
Another assumption like this, and i’m gonna put you on ignore. I’m getting pretty close to being fed up with your bs, and clear misinterpretation of what i am saying.
I like the set bonuses, the extra mechanic on top that they add which makes you do more damage, add cool effects etc.
What i do not like and do not agree with on your point is that it makes gear more complex, which it doesn’t, and that you are effectively locked on certain slots.
I don’t think people would enjoy mostly or even purely utility based sets. People wanna do more damage, more healing or tank better, and have new interesting mechanics, in general, if they provide some utility on top then that’s an extra. But if all they provide is utility, then no, they would not be as liked as something that actually changes your rotation/makes it better.
It also doesn’t delete item sets, the armor set is just a theme, but what people actually complained about was the removal of the set bonus, not the set armor, that can still be made even without the bonus as they did in the past 4 years or so.
And about this: I suggest perhaps the solution to that is to have multiple competing sets, maybe filling out different slots but some slots overlap, etc. - but you clearly don’t like that.
I am not necessarily against it, but if you can get something like 2 4 set bonuses that would likely be a problem for balance, a cool idea but i think too difficult to actually implement.
Unless you purposefully try to balance around it, but that would lead to either having to wait 2 tiers to have the full effect of your set, or they can just make an 8 set piece which also has it’s difficulties.
But that means people who do not enjoy M+ are effectively forced into M+. If your forcing people into M+ for BIS gear, why not force M+ players into raid ?
By separating them your not forced into anything you dont want to do.
Unless the vault is going to give the same rewards for completing heroic raid bosses as doing +15s that wont change for raiders.
It would also mean our bis trinkets would have to come from one source which they rarely do. Many of us have to farm M plus for them. Weapons vary too. The special effect ones tend to come from raids.
I really don’t see separating them all out again as a way forward.
I agree with both of your pov’s, tbh.
I would argue that in earlier expansions (where stats like Hit, Expertise and Armour Penetration were important factors to consider) yes, there was an element of complexity in optimising around the slots best suited to your tier pieces. Doubly so when you consider that each tier piece often came with its own unique selection of stats different from competitors in the same slot, which you had to weigh against alternatives of said slot if you take into account that usually you only want 4/5 pieces.
Even now, when people are selecting which pieces best comprise their 4 set, they’re often considering the stats present on those items and where to drop the fifth piece. Granted, the choice is very hollow now compared to what it once was, but it’s still there.
However I agree that in the modern game where by the admission of the devs themselves, the driving factor in whether something is an upgrade or not is iLvl, tier sets are a little outdated as a system. You don’t need to juggle an excess of stats, and the upgrade process is largely streamlined to whatever has more primary stat on it.
I think I agree that to move tier sets away from specific items and onto other effects is to undermine their original design, but I also acknowledge that their original design doesn’t really fit within the context of what the game has become.
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They’re not really forced to, they can get all the gear for pvp from raid alone, just because there is a slightly better piece in m+ doesn’t mean it’s forced.
The alternative is worse anyway, you’re gonna split loot into 3, and it’s gonna be a nightmare. Are you gonna carry 3 sets of armor if you wanna do both pvp and m+/raiding? What if you wanna try using alts, are you just gonna live inside the game farming gear?
Go ahead, I couldn’t care less. You’re just hostile and hard to engage with, and it’s only getting worse.
Your idea gets rid of sets. It doesn’t get rid of the bonuses provided by the sets, but that’s besides my point. I want to keep sets, I want them to enhance the feature - you just want the bonuses. That’s not an assumption, it’s what you’re saying openly to me, but you can’t see that.
Wanting those bonuses is fine by me - they are a good feature in and of themselves - but I want more.
Well raid is an easy one as you hit a lockout. M+ with its no lockout and endless loot is what would lock you into the game (and already does).
And yes people do feel forced to, because if M+ gear is better, any raider half interested in progression will feel they have to do it to be the best they can.
Nip it in the bud and split them. If you want to play all 3, time is what you have to sacrifice to gear up in them. If you only want to raid then perhaps play an alt why should you have to sacrifice time to farm M+.
Well yea, i guess we’re just gonna have to live inside the game 24/7 if you wanna try some alts.
Yea some raid gear is better some m+ gear is better, if you don’t wanna play m+ or raids and miss out on a piece of gear that is slightly better that seems like a you problem.
Splitting the pve loot in 2, brings far more problems than what it “solves”. So it’s not worth doing. Just separate pve and pvp, and that’s it.
You complain about “forcing” people to effectively play m+ or raid, even if they don’t like it, but with your idea you are still forcing people who like both to gear up for both M+ and raid to be as effective as possible, so what did you solve? NOTHING. Do you think most people would enjoy having to gear up twice for the same category of content? I am gonna take a guess and say, no. The only difference is which people draw the short end of the stick, and in your case, from what i understand you make it seem like you want to completely separate m+ and raid, so raid gear will straight up be worse for m+ in every case, and vice versa.
It’s incredible to me how people argue their wrong af points to the last breath, even though they are debunked, busted, proven false ,whatever the hell it is.
You with your point about separating pve gear into 2, which would cause more problems that what the current system has.
And the other guy making a point about how you actually really need both the set bonus and the armor in order to be considered a tier set effectively. Basically because that’s how it’s been, that’s what it boils down to. Even though it’s wrong, and i already said why it is wrong.
The armor set can still be made, even without the bonus, which is something that they did, but guess what, did people complain about the lack of the new armor set? Or the set bonus? Ill let you be the judge.
My solution doesn’t give up anything, aside your preconceived notion about how tier sets should be. You still get your tier set from the new raid, and you still get your set bonus, you simply choose which gear you wanna put it on. The argument about “complexity” is also wrong as wrong can be, as i already explained.
This is why this kind of argument just annoys me, why do you not think? Why do you not use those noggins and actually think about this stuff for more than 1 second? Why do you repeat the same wrong af points that other people made in the past, without actually thinking about it, or simply because “that’s how it always was”.
Look, if you like it that way, just say that, don’t try to make up an argument that doesn’t even make sense.
Please stop insisting with your wrong af points. You’re not gonna get a different answer no matter how many times you repeat it. If this is brought up again i will not even respond.
I enjoy both but dont want to grind 2 sets! Would rather see a currency drop from every content type and let us craft the gear we want from a vendor
Or use this idea and have higher ilvl just be higher stats.
And here is the thing, I occasionally dont mind M+ but dislike it because I feel forced to have to do it for better optimised stats in raid etc.
I only have limited time each week, but I would actually prefer to grind both contents for 2 gear sets, because if for a season I dont fancy doing M+ I dont have to or even if I dont like a raid tier I wouldnt feel like I had to to get best gear.
I mean you could add some stat to the enchant, but i think it’s pretty boring compared to increasing the effectiveness of the set itself.
Although it’s not a bad idea, i just think increasing the effectiveness of the set is more fun.
For example ill take outlaw rogue current tier set.
2 set: Main gauche has a 25% chance to proc pistol shot, at lfr it’s 25%, normal it’s 35%, heroic is 45%, mythic is 55%
4 set: after loading 6 bullets, you shoot between the eyes as if it used 6 combo points, the requirement stays at 6 for everything, but for lfr you have a 6 cp spender, for normal you have a 7 cp spender, for heroic you have an 8 cp spender, and mythic it’s 9 cp.
Something like that. This would effectively change your rotation.
Why not make the tier sets different if it comes from different levels of content, LFR gets some utility options, while all of the damage comes from the mythic set. Means more people will go and raid mythic, yay.
It’s way too easy to make a mistake and it’s way harder to design.
I also don’t think most people would be fine with having no damage/pure utility set.
I don’t think even mythic raiders would like this.
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