I like tier sets, but

Community General Discussion
1

You didn’t solve the original problem that you had with it.

Remember how you made a point about how the are basically impossible to swap out? And how you had a problem with it, because it meant that even if you had something with better stats you couldn’t use it because you were effectively locked?

The solution would have been this: Make tier sets apply on gear you choose, like an enchant, you can extract the set and re apply it to another piece of gear, and instead the higher the difficulty the stronger the set bonus.

Let’s make an example, lfr set gives your main gauche a 25 % chance to proc a pistol shot, normal has a 30%, heroic a 35% and mythic a 40% chance.

If you have a mish mash of various difficulties it either applies the lower version, or it calculates the values based on which sets you have of which difficulty.

If the effect doesn’t increase damage in that way, but rather makes your ability do something else, like for example, outlaw rogue 4 set, where it basically makes you fire between the eyes after you used pistol shot 6 times, you simply increase the damage of the proc by a %, or increase the effectiveness in another way.

Or there is another option, but i didn’t really wanna mention it because it doesn’t really solve the problem.

Make the tier set work like an enchant, but you cannot extract it, but this would effectively mean that all that changes is simply that you can choose the piece of gear you wanna put it on. Which is still a pretty big deal, but it doesn’t fundamentally solve the problem, also you could get the tier from lfr and then apply it to a mythic piece of gear.

I think the first option is better.

2

I agree with the problem you stated but I dont really feel like there is the best way to fix it. I mean your ideas could fix the problem more or less but if after you earn it you can reapply it to any gear you have than “set bonus” loses its meaning. I mean the idea is that you get a bonus because you have a set, if you can enchante your gear to have that set bonus, your gear could be all over the place and get you a set bonus… but you clearly dont have a set…

We can in that case remove set bonus all together and just make them like a buffs that apply to you after you earn few peaces of gear from a raid, and those buffs stay until next raid tear…

3

But i already provided a solution, higher level content will provide a stronger set bonus.

I think this idea has more benefits than drawbacks compared to what we currently have.

And it can still be a set, it’s just an “enchanting” set rather than an armor set.

4

I am not saying that your solution wont work but that if thats the case than we really dont need to have set bonuses.

I agree that the current way is kinda stupid and annoying. I had 252 ilvl item from world quest and 249 ilvl set item from lfr and I had to use that weaker item because it was actually better as it gave me my set bonus.

I just wanted to say that your idea makes set bonusses pointless as they are no longer set bonuses, as you are not required to have a set of items. I am not saying that the current system is better, but just that if set bonus no longer requires you to wear a set maybe its better to have another system that gives you your set bonus in another way.

5

Well, i am looking at the gameplay impact of set bonuses for the most part, about the “idea” behind it, to be frank i personally don’t care.

6

Interesting idea. It could be interesting if these were permanent unlocks that you could use in future raids as well within an expansion, so you have expanding set of effects to use.

Would be a nightmare to balance though. I don’t think setting set power based on difficulty is necessary though, since you’re already applying it to w/e you need.

Another thing they could do is make different open world, m+, raid and PvP sets, where open world might have some mix if survivability, mobility and damage effects, M+ would be primarily AoE, raid would have ST/Cleave, and PvP could have whatever the spec needs to shore up its weaknesses or enhance its strengths in PvP.

Also a balance nightmare /laugh

7

Ah damn, i actually didn’t think about that.

No they’re gonna have to limit it to either a single 4 set, or 1 4 set and a 2 set, but you definitely cannot use everything otherwise it’s just a nightmare to balance and it’s guaranteed to have counter synergy. Maybe they’re even gonna have to limit it to the current 4 set.

But thanks that you brought this to my attention.

8

I was thinking you would have to use either a 4 set or two 2 sets, with the enchant being only applicable to 4 gear pieces (helm, shoulders, chest, pants?)

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9

Ah ok, that seems more doable.

10

The best way to fix the loot, is to de link M+ and Raid gear.

Have them as their own stand alone gear for their content type (like pvp and everything else)

Et Voila.

1 Like
11

That doesn’t solve any of the fundamentals problems with tier sets, and makes gearing characters even harder, sure pvp and pve should be separated, but that’s it.

12

This isn’t a problem, it’s an intended feature. One of the core features of set bonuses is that it makes your character building a little more complicated by keeping you using items you might have otherwise replaced because they confer a larger bonus by combining them with other items.

13

Not so sure about that, because i straight up heard them mention this as a problem, and it was one of the reason why they removed tier sets to begin with.

14

If you ask the original designers about why they put sets in the game, and I have, they’ll tell you straight out that it’s in order to make character building more complex by making you keep items around you would’ve otherwise replaced, or keep an item in your bag until you get another to get the first bonus, etc.

This was all completely deliberate and was taken largely with inspiration from Diablo 2 which did a very similar thing with its green set items.

Kevin Jordan, who designed the original game and stayed there until Cata, explains it here: https://youtu.be/tAO0v7eiueQ?t=322 (and yes, he talks a bit slow)

Whether you consider it a problem or a cool moment is a matter of perspective, but I personally think it’s a cool moment - or rather it would be a cool moment if Blizzard would stop making the item level gaps so incredibly large that there’s basically no gameplay in that decision point.

15

I see.

I personally don’t really care much about that, but i think keeping tier sets is more important than not keeping them, although i would prefer it to be the way that i explained above.

16

Well, your design completely deletes the core notion of tier sets as a system at its core, leading me to believe that you want tier sets not for its design as a gameplay set, but only for a visual set.

In any case, I certainly do think the current design of the game undermines one of the core ideas behind item sets anyway by basically only making one that’s even remotely viable due to item level differences and the fact that they plain and simply only design one per tier, so one can argue a case for indeed removing item sets as a gameplay feature and instead simply making it about getting bonuses for collecting a secondary type of item.

But your idea introduces differentiated power for the bonuses as well depending on item level, so what you basically just did is you suggested conduits but sometimes when you put in a conduit it doesn’t do anything until you get another one, and also there’s only 4 conduits and you can equip all of them at once.

17

What? No it’s the complete opposite.

I want the only thing to matter to be actual gameplay. I don’t wanna be bothered with having a higher piece of gear that i cannot use, i care about the visuals of the tier set but the point has nothing to do about the visuals.

All i care is about the actual gameplay that the tier provides, without being bothered with unswappable pieces of gear.

18

If all your bis gear for raid (including tier) comes from raid how doesnt it solve it ?

And all your bis from M+ comes from M+

19

But that’s exactly what set bonuses do! That’s literally what they do, that is their purpose, that is how they function. One item only unlocks its powers if another item it combos with is also present - so taking one out means weakening the other, therefore encouraging you to keep it even though you have another item that is better than it.

Which a system where you just collect 4 little gems or conduits or whatever neatly does - it even differentiates based on the item level you collected them at as you suggested, like conduits. The only difference between the system I’m talking about and your system is that on your system it shows up on the pieces, but it’s not actually tied to the piece in any way and thus isn’t actually a feature of the item. The difference between your system and conduits is that there are far more conduits and you must make a selection of which bonuses you want, and of course the fact that they slot into soulbinds instead of just a 4-gem meter that fills up to give you two bonuses you cannot change or choose.

Do you want item sets or not?

20

What? But that was never really the point, and that brings more problems that are just not worth dealing with.

Just make pvp and pve gear that’s it.