I like Revendreth the most; it’s a fun zone that doesn’t take itself too seriously. The rest of the zones I just don’t care about.
As for the opening story, I am totally uncaring. ‘Oh look, all these former heroes have been taken prisoner, only you can rescue them!’ Ho hum.
‘Sylanas is up to something really really bad!’ Ho hum.
‘Look, there is another character from the past! Remember Vashj, remember Arthas? How about Draka? Isn’t this cool?’ Ho hum.
I’m feeling the same as most of you guys in that Shadowlands just doesn’t feel like it is the afterlife but just another life. The zones don’t look like they have anything to do with death imo.
I’m massively disappointed with the characters we’ve seen so far or maybe it’s just because the main story line has been so weak and slow. It’s been 4 months since release and it’s been so long since the main story stopped i’ve just been doing dailies as per normal day in day out.
If i’m honest i’m really not enjoying WoW anymore, it’s turned into a thing i do when i get in from work because I’ve got so little else to do due to covid. I need to find a new MMO i think, Warcraft is now just a habit for me and that’s just sad.
Not to mention Tauren spiritwalkers could literally walk between realm of the living and realm of the death.
“Their bodies are vessels, conduits from the realm of the dead to the world of the living. Spirit walkers are often looked upon with awe and fear by their brethren. A spirit walker strong enough to bear the weight of so many souls achieves a mystical transcendence, embodying the collective will and experience of the generations that are reaching out to him”
" A spirit walker lives only partially in the mortal world. His mind roams freely, and countless personalities enter his memories and his thoughts. When speaking to a spirit walker one can never be entirely certain that only the spirit walker responds, for they speak with the voices of the ancient ancestors. Elderly spirit walkers sometimes lose all memories of their original selves, slipping from one spirit to the next without warning or control. The stress of handling so many souls turns a spirit walker’s pelt or hair snow-white over the years. Some tribes consider a tauren born with a white pelt to be destined to become a Spiritwalker. Such children sometimes refuse their destiny, but almost all give in eventually. Elder tauren have been known to develop spirit walker powers sometimes only days before their deaths."
Not a single entire god damn reference towards them.
I know it’s not much but actually Uther was one of the people who cared what happens on Azeroth after he landed in Bastion.
Every time I do something in Maldraxxus I just think how perfect that zone would be for an Azjol-Nerub expansion. And then it makes me sad that it was wasted on one of the worst non-hell afterlives I have ever seen.
This is why I hate Bastion.
Everyone turn into a blue human, it’s ridiculous.
Can agree with a lot of these points. Big reason why I like to envision my characters in their own role during these moments rather than being part of the immediate big picture. Using the expansion and its elements as a sort of sandbox if you will.
…But that shouldn’t be the case. I - nor should anyone else be - forced to feel compelled in a story written by someone else in their own way. At that point, may as well have the writers and development outright say that their universe is ‘whatever we want it to be!’.
Which would be awful, but at least there are fewer eggshells there.
Funny thing is that if they wanted to make characters more relatable, all they’d have to do at minimum is refer to past material and put them somewhere in SL
That’s it! Whenever I go through those zones, it just seems like they have absolutely no connection to death whatsoever.
I was doing some dailies in Revendreth the other morning and I was running around the outer skirts of Castle Nathria. There were some NPC’s torturing souls in anima fountains on the grounds there and it made me think, this is NOT anything like an afterlife. Why would a soul be dragged to a random spot in the castle grounds, on a little side path, to be tortured for anima? It’s so poorly thought out and designed. It’s the same within Torghast - where you see little souls chained up on the side of the corridor or at the bottom of a set of stairs.
Maybe I just have stupid expectations, but for me I don’t feel like I’ve crossed over the veil to the land of the dead. Absolutely nothing there resembles death. And it’s something that I just cannot shake.
I just pray that Blizzard read these forums for feedback. The shadowlands are meant to be infinite, so I’m hoping that in future patches, where they release more zones, that they at least resemble a place where we can imagine the souls of Azeroth inhabiting.
Rare to see so many people in a forum post here nearly, if not unanimously agreeing on such a big matter.
Loads of good points expressed here already so won’t bother to repeat them, worth a read through the whole post.
Only thing I’m going to add is that I’m really hoping they’ve got some cool idea which hasn’t been seen yet that would make the whole thing make sense. I mean if this whole expansion is basically “big bad wants to eat azeroth and dominate over other forces, you must stop him” that it would genuinely make this the worse expansion (lore wise) so far, even worse than BFA. BFA might have been an erratic puppy with ADHD, but at least it was on Azeroth and explored some themes that were theoretically interesting (awful execution of course…)
Some thoughts on things I’m hoping to see that would at least improve some of the characters going forwards.
I don’t think anything can save the cosmology right now. Even if we go by the theory that Zo’val wanted to make the Shadowlands into something better and not some messed up anima factory but was betrayed, it’s already forfeit because of “dEaTh CoMeS fOr thE SoUL oF YoUr WOrlD!” uuuh look at me I’m a big baddy quote…
IMO there are some good and some bad sides to the story that we have currently.
Bad ones are the usual, or so it seems to me, that there are some points of contention between the players and the devs that are repeating again and again for the last 2-3 expansions, if not longer:
What is good? I would say:
I hated what they did with the Night Watch story, them just ignoring the aftermath of Teldrassil outside of selected few places convenient for the narrative, and so on. I really wish we won’t see them touching Arthas. In fact, the more they focus on new things and their own ideas IMO the better. They won’t ruin what people liked, and will be unconstrained in what they want to tell.
I have a hard time naming characters I like with consistent presence in the story. There are some episodic. Azshara was cool, so was Sur’jin, Bwon, Grand Lector, Runas, talking weapons, and there are some nice ones in the Shadowlands, like Marileth (I struggle to name another single character, but as a concept I like brokers and attendants, there are some funny stewards and dredgers).
The current narrative seems to follow the idea of “how can we push existing lore into what we want to do” rather than building on top of what is there. Characters do and say things that the devs want to to move the story in a desired direction, rather than what seemingly should be relevant to them.
So, not all is bad. Places look good. Some individual stories and quests were interesting. I liked walking with Ta’mari across Oribos to find out what the denizens say. There is some good voice acting. Music occasionally nice. But one thing I wish - for the new devs to stay away from the old things. They were loved for reasons new devs seemingly not caring about. So, let old stories stay behind. So far what I see the dev team doing with old lore is… Want to do new things - just do new things IMO.
/rand off
gl hf
It’s almost impossible to develop long-term investment on High fantasy stuff that seems invented on the spot, has close to zero relation with past stories (and often retcons them), and almost certain zero impact on future ones.
Also, it doesn’t help that they’ve long broke our suspension of disbelief, and the fact that we know that no matter how high Blizzard rises the stakes, everything will inevitably revert to the status quo once we swoop in, and kill and loot the baddie.
All the plot hooks left in the game are those that are created through callbacks to past stories that are related to the staple scenario of the game (or its past history). Which is Azeroth and the protagonists that were developed there.
In fact, them having the story detach so much from more grounded settings, makes the game loose whatever appeal it may have had. As we will systematically be given more and more temporary acquaintances that the general audience does not care about.
Honestly? The only way i can see them bringing back interest on a story level, will be by either having another faction war, or another Cataclysm-like experience that revamps Azeroth as the main setting for the new stories.
And regardless of how many people are willing to admit it, the story engagement will dip even further when the lkes of Sylvanas are gone. With the only viable substitute being that of inventing new divisive or engaging characters that take her place on a faction level (Turalyon villain batted, for example).
The likes of Anduin do not generate investment or interest.
If funny Gloryhammer songs about magical cosmic hammers, transdimensional wars, the quest for a legendary enchanted Jetpack and the conquest of Hollywood can create a more cohesive, emotionally fulfilling and above all, more plausible fantasy universe than yours, you have a problem.
Do you think the devs will have enough creativity to have at least a single expansion actually about faction conflict?
Or dare I say, do you think the dev team have people that actually can tell a story that the factions are indeed the core of WoW as a game, and the moral of the story to be “it’s good to keep factions”?
If they can’t develop new character, of course it will. But IMO it speaks more about their “success” with the narrative rather than necessity to re-use old characters by new devs, who put their ideas into old characters and turn them into an abomination in the process.
I am both curious what it is, and not sure if it’s a good idea to know 
gl hf
Nah, it’s a bit of fun power metal that impresses mostly by deliberately exaggerated “epic” storylines. But since this is actually meant as parody, while WoW isn’t… having worse world building and emotional payoffs might be a problem. 
I might be a little hyperbolic here, but not much.
For the King of Space
We will fight to end disgrace
In our once proud land
We will make our stand
When the dark lord comes
We will shoot our laser guns
For the glory of mighty Dundee
Vanitati
Latinae
Canentis
The current story team seems to have in mind a story approach that makes it hard to generate long-term engagement.
And this probably comes from the fact that contrary to the team that preceded them, they are far less inclined to follow through with a consistent and organic world building.
Instead of working with the limitations and “rules” of a defined setting, they use it for short term shock value events. Because it’s easier and flashier than following on a more natural development.
And in said regard, focusing on High Fantasy “planes”, fits like a glove for them:
They are self-contained stories with flashy cinematics and events that give them free rein to unburden themselves from whatever those that came before, did with the setting.
Someone wanted a Dracula raid? No problem. We can create a vampire afterlife.
Still, they find themselves gravitating towards what their predecessors laid for them. And feel urged to play on “renewed” versions of successful stories from the past (even if they have to downright call and keep on revisiting franchise Superstars like Arthas, Illidan, Sylvanas, Uther, Kaelthas,…)
If only because they unconsciously know that without them, the interest in their story approach would wear off very very quickly.
As it’s happening now with Shadowlands.
They can’t develop new characters because they don’t know how.
And because they lack the commitment to create a solid arch. And because they are to lazy, or extremely lacking in creativity, to do anything other than to lean on their “good ol’ reliables”, hoping that their name and fame will keep people interested in whatever they are doing.
They find themselves with a bunch of characters, and either burn them senselessly in one of their “Oohs and Aahs” moments, or twist them to fit with their newfound “great idea” for the plot. And then hope people get invested in it because “Well…it’s Thrall!”. Or Jaina. Or Sylvanas.
I mean will they be actually able to pull it off and make an interesting story out of it? I wasn’t subbed during BfA, and only joined back a couple of months before pre-patch but that story was so wacky! No attention to detail whatsoever, constantly interrupted by old Scottish McDiamondhead’s environmental disasters and other villains that felt really disposable.
The coolest thing to come out from this faction conflict imo, was the forsaken council meeting with Lordaeron refugees in the Arathi Highlands, and that wasn’t even in the game! They added that graveyard and a couple of easter eggs that related to that event that was it.
On top of that, the faction war was only visible in the new islands, boring expeditions, and also boring pvp themed PvE bgs.
If they are to try something like that again they need to make some pan-azerothian conflict that will involve the entire existing map somehow. Make meaningful stories about how our wars are affecting the land and its people. And you know what this could even very nicely lead to the other thing you mentioned:
Wouldn’t be nice if for once, we’re the ones responsible for the bad stuff that happens on Azeroth and not some unconditional evil that wants to corrupt/eat/consume/engage in bdsm with our planet?
That’s a problem WoW has in my opinion since the start: Interesting lore stuff only happening in books which aren’t read by most players. No wonder people think lore is boring - they only get bits of it without coherence. But I also am under the impression that this is getting better with the story campaigns we now have during leveling and on max lvl. Although they could do soooo much more in that regard: telling players more about the culture of the races, their history (like with the heritage armour questlines) …
I did like the max lvl war campaign on both factions, was actually the first thing that made me interested in the lore - togeather with the blood elf heritage armour quest line. 
I imagine that experiencing the content in the correct order must have been better for sure. If you join late, things are disjointed and erratic: One moment I’m helping the Zandalari, I’ve maxed level only by doing one zone thoroughly and a bit of the second, then I’m dropped in the middle of the ocean, then I return some quests to king rasta-man, but wait he actually died?! When? How? Oh there was a raid where the allies kill him ok… Long live the king even though I’m currently still returning quests to him elsewhere? 
Oh yeah and before I’ve even started the 3rd zone of the island, already being full of m+ gear, I’m being sent to Egypt and China to deal with the Old gods… I hope you understand my position a bit better now! 
I’ve done the Tauren heritage armour quest line and I enjoyed it, currently lvling a blood elf just to experience theirs, that’s the exact kind of bespoke, unique to circumstances content that I like doing. Learning more about the classes and races. I was very disappointed to find out that the allied races don’t actually have quests for their sets 
Books will always be the superior method of conveying an enriched story with interesting characters in a detailed world. Surely though they could add more of the important stuff in-game, then use the books for the more subtle details?
Can’t wait for people being really confused when Turalyon and void-elf lady eventually become villains! 
They have to. We don’t want yet another “one of the major characters of the story was killed off in a novel” scenarios like we had with Carine, now do we?
" Upon his passing, A’dal and his naaru take Bridenbrad’s soul into the Light, ensuring his rescue from undeath and promising him “paradise eternal”. By doing so, the naaru bound his soul to the realm of Light away from the Shadowlands." wowpedia
It’s from an interview with Danuser.