I refuse to kill another Horde leader as Horde player

[Tombshine-khadgar (Tombshine)]

This loyal veteran was so much loyal to Garrosh

He was advisor to Garrosh at the behest of Thrall, until Garrosh started going down the big-bad-boss path, to which Saurfang joined the revolution and was at Thralls side for its entirety, even going as far as testifying against him using all that experience. You’re a fool if you genuinely think he was all in on the Garrosh craze, or simply skipped WotLK and MoP entirely.

I just talk how, so much worse things, that Saurfang do are ignored and put on honorable side, that actually are not.

Saurfang is the plot device for the honourable old Horde, versus a Warchief who has proclaimed to have no care for Honour whatsoever, as evidenced by dialogue and her actions. I’m still waiting for that nice list of honourable deeds the Warchief has done. Even if you could throw some together, they are off-set by the dishonourable, and any mention of traitor simply needs a reference to the countless times she has done worse in the past.

This is not present in any actions of Saurfang.

Except they are. Half of the strife of the story was actually based on it before the expansion even went underway, and is littered through all of the cinematics and written story. The funny thing is that you’re twisting them to represent a ‘traitor’ instead, whilst never actually mentioning Sylvanas actions at all, and completely ignoring the things that instigate those reactions.

For now we see only indirectly dishonorable moves. It’s used by boy king. It can’t be just let it free, never things are not just, specially when we talk about warr.

Aaaand more twisting that ignores what has already been presented, that is immediately obvious to anyone who has been following the story and cinematics.

War was barely even mentioned. The only constant between the two in that cinematic was Sylvanas, not the war nor co-operation. Feel free to re-watch it. This has already been explained and doesn’t need to be debunked again. If you want to brand being let free after yet another suicide attempt as ‘working with the enemy’, then I really don’t know what to say. This is worse than the people branding Baine a traitor for having peaceable contact with Anduin in the past. Now you can’t even be let out of their prison on the basis of being a reputable, honourable Orc without now instantly being branded an Alliance sympathizer or spy, despite no mention or even a HINT that they would be co-operating, outside of the fact they both oppose Sylvanas.

He lead the war versus Night Elves and the moment of winning, he betray warchief direct order and betray the war.

Sylvanas was there at the time. Sylvanas saw he was struggling with his honour. She walked off anyway rather than doing it herself. Better blame the one with a morality issue compared to the instigator of the whole plan diverging the task at the last moment to someone she would have known was in doubt. Smart.

Keep in mind that every horde soldier, every future horde civilians and members, that Malfurion will kill or order to kill, all deaths will be entirely on Saurfang side.

Is Saurfang the Warchief of the Horde and the one pushing such a plan forward? Nope. Once again, ignoring Sylvanas in all of these twisty points.

Saurfang is traitor and nothing more by splitting the horde in half

Right. It clearly has nothing to do with almost ALL Horde representatives getting dishevelled by Sylvanas’ decisions as Warchief. Better blame Saurfang and keep ignoring Sylvanas actions.

Here we should understand and Sylvanas, if you have someone working with your foe to kill you and you do nothing to stop him, you’re an idiot.

Yes, let’s ignore the part where she dismisses honour, encouraged him to die (which he complied with, except they didn’t finish him), told the rest that if they cared about him, they could go and join him in death for all she cared, then actively sought his assassination - and the assassination of someone who wasn’t even part of any of the BFA story - because why not? All after having blighted and raised their own troops - something even Garrosh opposed - having instigated this war in the first place, holding absolutely no council like any past iteration of the Horde has, all while going against her own mantra since Banshee Queen day 1 and slaying her own kind for the sake of self-preservation.

You can keep going on and on about Saurfang being the bad one all you like - but as long as you keep neglecting the story, what is instigating these responses, why it is making characters do these things, then you’ll prove nothing other than you are either trying to troll, trying to low-key defend Sylvanas, or that you’re just not paying any kind of attention.

[Janzì-argent-dawn]

Did you see that I defend Sylvanas? I just talk how, so much worse things, that Saurfang do are ignored and put on honorable side, that actually are not.

claims to not defend sylvanas, but then goes on to throw so much shade on saurfang that it may as well eclipse the sun entirely.

this is like politics at a crucial vote, heh. covers up own misgivings while super highlighting opponents own.

[Thraktoth-twilights-hammer]

yea she did more then less take over stormwind but wasent real “faction leader”

[Nefertum-alakir]

Keep in mind that every horde soldier, every future horde civilians and members, that Malfurion will kill or order to kill, all deaths will be entirely on Saurfang side.

Is Saurfang the Warchief of the Horde and the one pushing such a plan forward? Nope. Once again, ignoring Sylvanas in all of these twisty points.

Here probably ignore, that Malfurion actions will be present, because he is alive. That’s why all future deaths by him or by Malfurion orders will be on Saurfang side. He don’t execute him so, any actions towards the horde will be on fate of Saurfang.

He was advisor to Garrosh

No matter how you try to hide truth… Saurfang was loyal to Garrosh to his end.

I can’t find the link at the moment, but on MMO-champion, there was thread about story. There was one guy, that predict Baine traitor move, just after burning the tree. What remember was, that he said: I am sure that all the friendship with Anduin will make him traitor on later story. This is fact now.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

Here probably ignore, that Malfurion actions will be present, because he is alive. That’s why all future deaths by him or by Malfurion orders will be on Saurfang side. He don’t execute him so, any actions towards the horde will be on fate of Saurfang.

More on the fate of Sylvanas like the entire faction war now

No matter how you try to hide truth… Saurfang was loyal to Garrosh to his end.

Garrosh was quite a good leader until he started to going mad in MoP and well… he was still much better than Sylvanas imo.

There was one guy, that predict Baine traitor move, just after burning the tree.

Dude, everybody foresaw that he will probably do it. This guy is not special or sth.

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

More on the fate of Sylvanas like the entire faction war now

Nah.

Garrosh was quite a good leader until he started to going mad in MoP and well… he was still much better than Sylvanas imo.

Not even close. Garrosh was the worst second only to Blackhand.

Dude, everybody foresaw that he will probably do it. This guy is not special or sth.

Traiter is traiter.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

Nah.

Yeah, just ignore the whole story of BfA, why not?

Not even close. Garrosh was the worst second only to Blackhand.

Subjective opinion.

Traiter is traiter.

Like Sylvanas in MoP and other expansions

[Zakkaru-burning-legion (Zakkaru)]

Garrosh was quite a good leader until he started to going mad in MoP and well… he was still much better than Sylvanas imo.

No, he wasn’t. In the very “the Shattering” he was described as borderline psychotic and a ticking bomb. I’d be very happy if people would stop using one quest as an example of good leadership when in the very same expansion we had like dozen that stated otherwise.

As for Saurfang being loyal to Garrosh - quite a big claim considering he was the first to promise him he will kill him if he would cross the line.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

He was better than Sylvanas. At least he tried to make the life of Orcs better and was smart enough to destroy Theramore and use Baine for his goals. Even if he seems to be aggressive h didn’t start a useless war like Sylvanas.

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

Did he? Was that why he allowed the Goblins to poison the river next to Orgrimmar and turned Orgrimmar into a burning cooking station by covering all in steel and spikes?

[Steabra-blackmoore]

He couldn’t know that Goblin would do something like that to the river and you don’t need to touch the steal.