I refuse to kill another Horde leader as Horde player

He was advisor to Garrosh at the behest of Thrall, until Garrosh started going down the big-bad-boss path, to which Saurfang joined the revolution and was at Thralls side for its entirety, even going as far as testifying against him using all that experience. You’re a fool if you genuinely think he was all in on the Garrosh craze, or simply skipped WotLK and MoP entirely.

Saurfang is the plot device for the honourable old Horde, versus a Warchief who has proclaimed to have no care for Honour whatsoever, as evidenced by dialogue and her actions. I’m still waiting for that nice list of honourable deeds the Warchief has done. Even if you could throw some together, they are off-set by the dishonourable, and any mention of traitor simply needs a reference to the countless times she has done worse in the past.

Except they are. Half of the strife of the story was actually based on it before the expansion even went underway, and is littered through all of the cinematics and written story. The funny thing is that you’re twisting them to represent a ‘traitor’ instead, whilst never actually mentioning Sylvanas actions at all, and completely ignoring the things that instigate those reactions.

Aaaand more twisting that ignores what has already been presented, that is immediately obvious to anyone who has been following the story and cinematics.

War was barely even mentioned. The only constant between the two in that cinematic was Sylvanas, not the war nor co-operation. Feel free to re-watch it. This has already been explained and doesn’t need to be debunked again. If you want to brand being let free after yet another suicide attempt as ‘working with the enemy’, then I really don’t know what to say. This is worse than the people branding Baine a traitor for having peaceable contact with Anduin in the past. Now you can’t even be let out of their prison on the basis of being a reputable, honourable Orc without now instantly being branded an Alliance sympathizer or spy, despite no mention or even a HINT that they would be co-operating, outside of the fact they both oppose Sylvanas.

Sylvanas was there at the time. Sylvanas saw he was struggling with his honour. She walked off anyway rather than doing it herself. Better blame the one with a morality issue compared to the instigator of the whole plan diverging the task at the last moment to someone she would have known was in doubt. Smart.

Is Saurfang the Warchief of the Horde and the one pushing such a plan forward? Nope. Once again, ignoring Sylvanas in all of these twisty points.

Right. It clearly has nothing to do with almost ALL Horde representatives getting dishevelled by Sylvanas’ decisions as Warchief. Better blame Saurfang and keep ignoring Sylvanas actions.

Yes, let’s ignore the part where she dismisses honour, encouraged him to die (which he complied with, except they didn’t finish him), told the rest that if they cared about him, they could go and join him in death for all she cared, then actively sought his assassination - and the assassination of someone who wasn’t even part of any of the BFA story - because why not? All after having blighted and raised their own troops - something even Garrosh opposed - having instigated this war in the first place, holding absolutely no council like any past iteration of the Horde has, all while going against her own mantra since Banshee Queen day 1 and slaying her own kind for the sake of self-preservation.

You can keep going on and on about Saurfang being the bad one all you like - but as long as you keep neglecting the story, what is instigating these responses, why it is making characters do these things, then you’ll prove nothing other than you are either trying to troll, trying to low-key defend Sylvanas, or that you’re just not paying any kind of attention.

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claims to not defend sylvanas, but then goes on to throw so much shade on saurfang that it may as well eclipse the sun entirely.

this is like politics at a crucial vote, heh. covers up own misgivings while super highlighting opponents own.

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yea she did more then less take over stormwind but wasent real “faction leader”

Here probably ignore, that Malfurion actions will be present, because he is alive. That’s why all future deaths by him or by Malfurion orders will be on Saurfang side. He don’t execute him so, any actions towards the horde will be on fate of Saurfang.

No matter how you try to hide truth… Saurfang was loyal to Garrosh to his end.

I can’t find the link at the moment, but on MMO-champion, there was thread about story. There was one guy, that predict Baine traitor move, just after burning the tree. What remember was, that he said: I am sure that all the friendship with Anduin will make him traitor on later story. This is fact now.

More on the fate of Sylvanas like the entire faction war now :stuck_out_tongue:

Garrosh was quite a good leader until he started to going mad in MoP and well… he was still much better than Sylvanas imo.

Dude, everybody foresaw that he will probably do it. This guy is not special or sth.

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Nah.

Not even close. Garrosh was the worst second only to Blackhand.

Traiter is traiter.

Yeah, just ignore the whole story of BfA, why not?

Subjective opinion.

Like Sylvanas in MoP and other expansions :confused:

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No, he wasn’t. In the very “the Shattering” he was described as borderline psychotic and a ticking bomb. I’d be very happy if people would stop using one quest as an example of good leadership when in the very same expansion we had like dozen that stated otherwise.

As for Saurfang being loyal to Garrosh - quite a big claim considering he was the first to promise him he will kill him if he would cross the line.

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He was better than Sylvanas. At least he tried to make the life of Orcs better and was smart enough to destroy Theramore and use Baine for his goals. Even if he seems to be aggressive h didn’t start a useless war like Sylvanas.

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Did he? Was that why he allowed the Goblins to poison the river next to Orgrimmar and turned Orgrimmar into a burning cooking station by covering all in steel and spikes?

He couldn’t know that Goblin would do something like that to the river and you don’t need to touch the steal.