The reason why I say so is, because some themes and OSTs ingame are very old and in comparison to newer compositions we are reaching a point where you can pretty much hear a big difference in the quality of the music.
Below you can find as first video the original theme from 2008, which should still be play ingame, as far as I know.
The second Video is a Cubase Composition from 2021 with much higher instrument quality and sound quality.
Edit: If you listen to the music, pay attention to how clearly you can hear voices and instruments, not how similar the melody sounds.
Edit: Also, here Orgrimmar Music as original and as remake.
Edit: For those unware of Sample-Rates in Music, this video example might help.
Listen closely to (maybe even close your eyes, if it helps you focus more on that). The higher the Sample Rate goes, the more clear you can hear the guitars strings “swing out”.
The Principle Sampling Rate and Bit Rate is explained in this Video pretty well:
I don’t think there’s a huge difference in quality, and while the covers don’t sound bad, they just don’t sound right after 17 years of hearing the same thing. A slightly different note here, a different accent there, slightly different rhythm and as a result it just sounds off.
Even if the recreations were better quality, the originals are still very much good enough for the in-game soundtrack and I don’t think there will ever be a good enough reason to re-record them, because while the sound quality might go up slightly, I don’t think it would be worth losing the sentimental value of the originals for it.
I honestly didn’t notice any difference, and I am against such change because a lot of the time when companies “upgrade the sound quality”, they feel like they should justify their work by making more changes to the composition to be more complex. And this almost always causes the melody to feel weaker, lost among all the added fluff.
Vanilla soundtrack in general is still the best and most memorable in the game (even thogh there are some strong new ones, mostly in WoD and Legion).
While that is a true argument in case of “hearing 17 years the same thing” it is also probably the reason why you don’t hear a difference.
I play only since Mid BfA and I am an educated Media Designer. I can totally hear a difference because I am trained to hear it. For example the SW theme in comparison to the Cubase Re-Composition has much clearer sound quality of the instruments and vocals because it was exported with around 48kHz as minimum, while the Original from 2008 probably with 44,1kHz (which is already 4000Hz less detail in the recording), alongside with different values in bass and compression. The Re-Composition is also made “by ear”, which means the creator of that Re-Composition sat down and listened to the original step by step, transferring it to modern instrument quality by listening. That is “almost accurate” to the Original. Also, don’t forget Blizzard owns the original Note Sheets, which make a composition much easier. And at last, Cubase compositions do sound good, but they lack the “Room” you can hear by Live-Audio-Recordings such as the OSTs of Games. After all, Virtual does not beat Actual.
For a new player, that is probably not so much memorable. The only reason why I remember the theme, is because I hear it every time I visit the cities, not necessarily because the quality makes them “memorable”. Humans are creatures of habits. If you would hear new versions for around 2-4 years, you would hardly remember the originals after that.
That’s a lot of audio engineering mumbo jumbo, but still no reason to re-record perfectly good music that everyone still loves. I mean seriously, who walks into Stormwind, hears the music and thinks to themselves “man I wish this was recorded in 48kHz instead of 41.1kHz”. Honestly, I don’t think even the audiophiles among us could justify a remake of these.
It is more of a “If Blizzard reworks the game, they should do it properly and in every aspect”-Mindset of me.
The same goes for old Zones with classic-WotLK textures/models. In 2023 when Microsoft takes over, they for sure want to make the game more played by old and new players. Bad looking zones compared to the newer ones will not sell the game to a new generation of MMORPG audience.
Besides that, I have to say that basically every other game does a better job at “telling me a story through music”. The earliest example I can recall (as a new player in WoW) is “Invincible” from WotLK. And only that track. Every other track is basically just good sounding jingles to me. First with WoD I feel like the music is actually telling me a story throught hearing. Especially the Argus themes from Legion and the Warfront Music from BfA.
I also think that Blizzard should do their music more “cinematic” sounding (edit: ingame). From my perspective, they are not using the full potential they could in music.
Meanwhile Bungie, with Destiny 1 and Destiny 2, does that since 2014 and I can hear a story in every single OST of the games without knowing the games.
To put it simple, Blizzard should tell their music department to try to be “more like Hanz Zimmer” (who is atm the best and highest skilled Composer of the 21st century) instead of just “making generic music”.
After all Activision-Blizzard claims to be "relentlessly curious, pushing the boundaries of what is possible to create games of our dreams—and yours" according to their company statement.
A statement that didn’t age well, considering all the bad expansions WoW had over the years, acknowledged in majority by the community.
Maybe also ask yourself if the game became bad because players failed to uphold the standard claims they are paying for
If I pay 12 months 15$ to play WoW (180$ per year) and additionally for each expansion 50-100$, I would expect some outstanding quality.
In comparison, I pay 30€ for 1 Destiny 2 default expansion version each year + 30-40€ more for 3-4 season passes with a duration of 3 months each (so basically 4 full seasons per expansion). That is, with current value in US Dollars 78,26$ per Year where I get a much higher polished quality and more fun than WoW offers recently in 2 entire years…
I’ve never met or heard of anybody with the issues you’re having. Of course, music is important, but the slight difference in audio quality, if even perceived, is lost to the absolute majority of people among the dialogues, other sounds effects and being mainly focused on what’s happening on screen. That’s why game soundtracks within the games themselves don’t need to have top of the line fidelity, not to mention file sizes.
And even if they somehow managed to remaster those pieces without altering it noticeably, I’d say very, very few would even notice a difference without being told to look for it, making it essentially a waste of money and resources.
Here is the thing. The vast majority of WoW, as an MMORPG isn’t cinematic things, but rather exploration, walking / riding / flying around the zones doing things. Highly ciematic scores don’t really fit that. They are good for cutscenes, even dungeons and raids, but not the open world.
We need simple, immersive, atmospheric tunes for the zones, but preferably ones with still melody and character. WoW, from Vanilla to BFA at least was actually one of the only really good Western examples of this (many open world games simply haven no music at all or something barely noticable).
Good point. But maybe that’s the reason why so many music and atmosphere in WoW is just lost, making the story telling worse?
Elder Scrolls Online does a better job at that. Final Fantasy 14 does a better job at that.
I still don’t know what is the actual WoW theme without looking it up on Youtube, and even them the melodies don’t really stuck with me because they don’t sound iconic to me.
I will always remember the Destiny theme.
I will always remember the Elder Scrolls theme.
I will always remember the Doom theme.
I will always remember the Halo theme.
I will always remember the Final Fantasy theme.
I will always remember the Divinity 2 Original Sin theme.
I will always remember the Overwatch theme.
I will always remember the Warcraft theme from the movie, but not from the game.
Maybe that is also a huge problem of why WoW lost so much of popularity compared to other games. WoW was once the undefeated, outstanding King of MMORPGs. These days, the Throne doesn’t stand that tall above other games anymore.
That’s why I said in the main title, they should re-record the music of older expansions with todays technology. I never said they should remaster the music. There is a distinctive line of difference there.
A remaster is a new interpretation of the old in general. A re-recording is just recording it again. The Microphones used back in 2008 are now 13 years old. Over a decade old in technology. Since that Microphones evolved, became better, with better components, better audio range and better values.
Imagine for a moment you would record the music with technology from 2008 for 30 years while other game studios use recent technology for their creations. After the 30 years you will have a major difference, similar to the quality between gray-scale TV and colorized TV back then. The Standards rise slowly every day with every new invention. If a company doesn’t keep up, they risk of getting flooded with better competition than they can produce.
And while Blizzard is doing it already with newer tracks from WoD onwards, I see the problem of older content before that of “not aging well” compared to what will come within the next 10 years of WoWs life-time.
If Blizzard wants WoW to run forever (which would be the main goal of an MMO/Live-Service-Game), they have to ensure their game plays and feels timeless. If they don’t keep everything in check, they will not achieve that goal.
Maybe another comparison helps you imaging the problem better, imagine this for a moment:
It is now 2032, 3-4 new expansions have rolled out since 2022. The game has been improved visually and gameplay wise. Live-Render-Cutscenes are Motion-Captured. Your character models look as detailed as Overwatch does on Ultra-Settings. The music and visuals in the game are of a new generation. You walk around in new cities where their themes play with crystal-clear sound. You can hear the vocals like they are actually singing right next to you or as if you were there, in the Orchestra room, while you are doing your peaceful buisness in the city. Then you travel to SW/Orgrimmar and suddenly all that clear quality is gone. You hear music that still sounds good, but kind off damped, unclear. You can barely understand what the vocals are singing about. The instruments sound like old recordings from the past in your ears. That’s the moment you realize, something is wrong. The music became outdated.
If a more basic visualisation of the problem helps you. Imagine the music from 2008 as 720p video. Right now the standard is 1080p. In 10 years it will be 4k videos. Then you will see the difference and how bad the quality feels compared to the 4k video standard.
A problem is best solved, if it is prevented in the first place.
Also, as a good example in practice: Go play a game in 60 FPS for 1-2 weeks (if you don’t already). Then change the FPS down to 30 for a day or longer. You will see a difference at first, that will annoy you. And you will never be unable to undo remembering of the better 60 FPS experience you had before.
Even those aspects can be done cinematic and in better quality. It is not some sort of “magical boundaries” that make it impossible. Just the lack and will to do so.
the WoW theme absolutely is recognizable to people, which is the original login screen music, and every other expansion login screen theme is a version of it
The memorability of the music has absolutely nothing to do with whether it’s recorded in 41.1kHz or 48kHz. Virtually nobody will be able to tell a difference without looking for it.
Vanilla theme
Shadowlands theme
The main tune is absolutely unmistakable. And just to be sure of the community perception, try to look for a single comment complaining about the quality, on any of the videos linked in this thread. I don’t think you’ll find one.
It’s not. You’re thinking of remakes.
And even a re-recording will sound just slightly different. Even if you get the exact same people to try to play it perfectly on the note, they won’t be able to. Artists performing the same thing on different occasions never do it exactly the same even if they try unless they’re syncing to pre-recorded audio.
And yet we still happily listen to timeless artist’s music recorded half a century ago. Songs recorded 30-50 years ago are still getting millions, and in some cases billions of streams on Spotify alone.
Just no, nobody will agree with you on this. If WoW ever dies, it will never be because some of the in-game music was just slightly below the standard of the current recording technology. It’s not like they recorded it on wax cylinders…
Let’s put it like this, if they re-record it, old players will notice it sounds different. Not better, or higher quality, but different, and I don’t think they’d be happy about it. And the new players won’t even know it was changed and I promise you they wouldn’t care if it was 41.1kHz or 48kHz, since within the game, it sounds perfectly fine…
About the 1. Point… Yeah, I can hear it… When I am listening to it right now. What I meant is, I can remember all the other themes of games named above without hearing the theme at that moment. Maybe I expressed myself wrong there, but that is what I meant in the first place.
About the 2. Point… As I said above, right now, no one will see much of a difference. But in 10-20 years people will. As I said, Standards increase with every day slowly. After 10 years maybe no one will even use 44.1-48kHz compression anymore but instead 88.2-96kHz is the new Standard. I am just speculating about the rates used there in the future. But fact is that Standards rise and better Quality sells better in the long run. And usually people want to see Quality for their Money.
What I am intending with my main post is not “I don’t like the music because of an entitled, meticulous mindset”. What I am intending is “shifting Blizzards Attention to a topic that will be very relevant in 10-15 years” as pre-caution so they can deal with that problem earlier before it becomes an actual problem.
Unlike all the Climate destroying Companies ignoring Climatic Change for 50 years before it becomes “relevant in Media and hurts the Companies Image”, I hope Blizzard does not ignore their “Didn’t age well”-Problem with the rising Standards of Consumers.
I am basically the Scientists warning about Climatic Change 50 years ago in this case. I am warning Blizzard about a problem-seed that will grow over time and hope they take action to fix it before it literally IS a problem in the future.
Alright, I admit I was wrong there. Another thing learned today.
That might be right for the people liking that musical age/era but most people of my country hear today more likely to Rap Music and recent released Music. And that music is recorded in current times Standards.
The Statement you are putting here is “People still hear old Tracks from the 70s-90s” but ignoring the fact that 44.1kHz is used since the late 1970s and became back then “the Standard” because it has, for back then and today, the best mix of Quality, Data Compression and Consumer Use. Today, 44.1kHz and 48kHz are the Standard for almost every musical piece recorded. And as I said, perhaps in 30 more years the Standard is 88.2-96kHz simply because Technology Standard for the average consumer developed that far.
Edit: I even see people hearing music from 1930s, but since that is analog recorded music, it doesn’t count.
I repeat again, I am pointing out a potential problem. I am not saying it is one today (31.1.2022). Not yet.
Another example I can think of rn. My old Tower PC from 2016 had a Sound Card that allowed my Audio to be sampled in 192kHz and I tried it out once. Never had such a clear dynamic audio range before and I left it at 192kHz setting for the remaining time of my use of that PC (sadly it had insufficient VRAM so I had to get me this Gaming Laptop I am typing on rn).
And once I am able to afford a new PC Tower, I will indeed make sure that it has a Sound Card that supports 192kHz Sampling Rate (edit: for both gaming and work purposes).
As I said, Standards rise slowly every day. And back then I tasted what a true Dynamic Range sounded like.
I would guess that in game music has been compressed to save space, because back then sound files were taking hefty chunk of cd installation.
Maybe they have OG files in studio on some usb or something, and there is no need to record new ones.
That being said, i agree with others that its not a big deal tbh.
That’s a you problem. I don’t know anyone who remembers all the other themes but not the WoW theme. I’m sorry, but the WoW them is iconic especially in the MMO scene, and you not remembering is a problem that’s yours and yours only, save for maybe another 7 people with this issue. 8 would be a stretch.
I’m willing to bet that if you played WoW theme for just a regular gamer that isn’t 15 years old and doesn’t one trick Fortnite would recognize and go “that’s the WoW theme”.
Also I just came back and read this statement from you: “I will always remember the Warcraft theme from the movie, but not from the game.”… and I unironically laughed. I saw the movie twice and if you played it to me right now I wouldn’t be able to tell you if it really is the movie theme. The film is nowhere near as popular as the game, and the same goes for their respective soundtracks.
From your list, I remember Elder scrolls, Halo and Overwatch. I couldn’t tell you any of the other ones.
What I could agree with is that the Vanilla login theme punches from the first second, while a lot of the other versions have a little “intro” to them, in the case of Shadowlands it’s 37 seconds before the original theme kicks in, so chances are before you hear it, you’re already in-game and missed it. So in a way, the original theme may not be heard nowadays as often as it used to, but that doesn’t take away from the music in any way. It’s still iconic in the gaming world.
Most people nowadays don’t buy audiophile headphones because they either can’t hear the difference or don’t care enough. That’s why audiophile equipment is such a niche market. The audio quality now is already really good, and I honestly don’t see how it could possible improve so significantly that people couldn’t bear hearing a recording from 2008. Unless you expect significant improvement in human hearing in the next 10-20 years, I don’t think consumer audio quality can go up much higher to the point that people will demand the best quality.
You’re seriously overestimating how much people care about audio quality. As long as they can make up the notes, the melody and there isn’t any significant noise, then it’s all good to go.
Furthermore, look at how popular headphones that overemphasise bass are. Most people really don’t care about having the clearest, most pristine sound achievable. The sound quality is now at the same point as screen resolution. You have 1080p, then going to 1440p is a noticeable jump, 4k less so… and then it keep doubling but the benefit is so much less and less.
We’re at a point where even if you double or triple the standard sampling rate, we just don’t really be able to tell all that much, even even fewer will even care to tell.
No, you’re not. You’re the Jehova’s witness knocking on people’s door warning them about the imminent end of the current world society that was supposed to come three times in the past decade alone, but this time it is definitely coming, source: trust me bro.
I’m in my early twenties and I know plenty of people my age and even a generation younger who will happily listen to old music. That most people listen to more recent music is due to what’s trending, not higher audio quality.
Again, it’s like going from 4k resolution to 8k. Or from 120hz refresh rates to 240hz and higher. The differences become less and less noticeable, and even tho 1080p->1440p is very visible, and so is 60hz → 120/144hz, most people are still very content with sticking to 1080p 60hz, despite both higher resolution and refresh rate screens being widely available and affordable now. It’s the same with audio, except that’s already advanced to that point where improvement is just too miniscule.
Consumer audio equipment has had the ability to sound pristine for decades now. It’s not getting that much better. Unless people in 10 years all suddenly begin caring about having audiophile setup with huge sound systems covering half of their living space, it really is not getting better. We’re already pretty good at playing recordings exactly as they sound live, and more.
And I’m telling you, it’s not going to be very different, if at all, in 10 or even 20 years from now.
And as I said, the rise is less and less noticeable, especially in audio at this point. And while the standard of playback and recording might rise, the standard of human hearing is not rising any time soon. Again, look at how many people are still crazy about “super extra giga bass”, and then I listen to it and it feels like someone’s diarrhea is pouring straight into my ears. Yet people still love it.
You’re clearly an audiophile, but you fail to understand that people like you are rare. Most people aren’t like this.
Aha, so you say because you don’t know someone like me it must be false or a “you-problem”. Sorry but since when are you and your experiences the measure of all things?
Ironic, since my brother immediatly recognizes the Warcraft movie theme too… And he doesn’t even play WoW or watch videos or read any of the books. In fact, he doesn’t play much games in general.
Why does this sound so unfounded as argument as saying “every kid on the world is playing Fortnite”? I feel like you are running out of actual arguments and focus now on “generalizing people” to fit into your mindset.
There are hundreds and thousands of other games out there. Don’t act like they don’t exist.
Ok, here we go. Let me just quickly link all you don’t know from my list.
(the fact, that I even know the original Doom theme is actually an outlier, since that game was waaaaay before I got into gaming…)
Every game has its own version of it, similar to WoW has “their own version” with every expansion, so I won’t link the themes from II to XV.
And last, but not least, the Warcraft Movie Theme
That could be the case and the problem when I think about it. Because all the themes I named immediately start without such a “little intro”.
For comparison to Destiny:
Halo 1-5/Infinite (you can also hear the cinematic progress in Halo 4 theme):
Ok, that is a valid argument you make. Perhaps I am the minority here.
But:
That is actually not out of reach, considering people like Elon Musk with “Neurolink” and possible “Human Augmentation” (a Setting Cyberpunk 2077 did bring up). We don’t know how the future will look like. I am at least thinking about it. Maybe you don’t.
Perhaps. But considering the bad spot both WoW and Blizzard are atm, the demand for higher and better quality in every aspect of the game is not oblivious. This community did forgive Blizzard too long their lack of Innovation and Ambition with WoW. Should be time that people stop forgiving and start demanding for their money.
Doesn’t change the fact that the Standard is still rising with every next level.
Bringing up a metaphor. In all seriousness, do you want a WoW that looks like a Book of visual History that starts with Pixel Art Graphics and ends with Stylized Photo-realism or do you rather want to have a Book with a distinctive, evenly look of Stylized?
Preposterous. I mentioned on several occasion in this thread that “Standards are improving”. History proves that. Or will you suddenly ignore how everyone stopped using old radios with 4-8 Bit Audio once they got their hands on a 10-16 Bit Audio? If you don’t know what I am speaking about, watch the last video in my main post, the sections giving example of 8 and 4 bit rate. You can’t tell me that this doesn’t count as proof, alongside the switch from grayscale TV to colorized TV and the switch from 720p to Full HD and higher Resolutions.
This is Change. And Change is the only Proof I need because everyone can experience it in real life and read about it in History books. It is not a physical proof. If you want a practical proof, do what I said, go play WoW in 60 FPS for a long time and then switch to 30 FPS. You “can get used to it” but it will never satisfy as the 60 FPS do earlier.
Let me fix that…
*Affordable for the high wages. Not affordable for the low/medium wages without saving money for a longer time.
The only reason why people are not sitting at home with a PC of the performance of the OMEN X and a 4k Screen is, because they have not necessarily the money and the will to spend on that. Some might even call it “Luxury”.
But as all media, certain things will die out. For example CDs. CDs are slowly getting retired by Blue-Ray. In some countries they already are perhaps. Same happened with Video tapes. Same is happening with HDDs in Gaming through SSDs.
I say again. You are not the measurement of all things. Yes, people love it. You don’t. Does that mean it is “less good”? That is open for debate.
In regards of the main topic about old themes.
Back in 2004-2008 the SW/Orgrimmar themes must have been recorded with 24 Bit from an Orchestra and converted down to 16 Bit on the CD-ROMs. All I am saying is that Blizzard should re-record the existing themes with the exact same notes with the exact same vocals and instruments in 32 Bit and compress that down.
More Bit on record means potentially less noise in the compression, because the original dB range of the noise is more apart.
To quote on google:
For ultra-high-dynamic-range recording, 32-bit float is an ideal recording format . The primary benefit of these files is their ability to record signals exceeding 0 dBFS. … Audio levels in the 32-bit float WAV file can be adjusted up or down after recording with most major DAW software with no added noise or distortion.
Aside of that, my main concern is not the user devices or the compression or even the bit/sample-rate. My original and only counting statement from the main post is, that they “should re-record it with modern day Microphones”. Microphones come in different variations, different levels of quality in case of functions and electrical components. For example 3D-Audio Technology (which can also be applied to Orchestra music).
If that is to your linking and you enjoy other music more, that is your free choice to do so. I myself do that often in WoW, simply because I feel like most of the music except for a few tracks feels so exchangeable to me (as I mentioned before, Music Story Telling), that it makes me not care at all about the music.
Only exceptions are cutscenes and Instances. I did raid a few times in WoW, but compared to Destiny 1 and 2 Raids they will never beat the atmosphere and never left any impression. Probably because the gameplay forces concentration away too much on the fight so music is just unimportant (unlike in Destiny and FF14 raids).
Exactly. In FF14 the music feels part of the game while in WoW it is just there.
Edit: For example, in Destiny Bungie puts real effort into musical entertainment. The music changes based on current Raid encounter or Strike Boss Stage. In PvP intensive moments as when Round time runs out or when it is last round, you hear this:
And this is an example of how the music behaves in raid boss fights:
