Something i notice as i play classic is it really rewards you for time put in. In classic if you want the best gear on the whole what you need is more time.
Sure if you do more dps, you will clear dungeons/raids faster and be more efficient with your time. Same with pvp you can earn more honor/hour, but on the whole there are almost no hard skill caps, and being more skilled just lets you use your time more efficiently.
In retail the game is very different with very hard skill caps all over the place. You want the best pvp gear, itās not time that you need, but the skill to reach high rating in arena. You want the best pve gear? again you need to clear mythic raids which are not so easy that the majority of players can do them.
I think this shift in design satisfyās a lot of players who feel like the best most skilled players should get the best gear. In practice though for a lot of players i think the classic model feels better, as it creates a system where if you want to progress your character you just put play it. If your more skilled you will make more progress per hour, but when ever you logon and play you can make progress. In retail itās often the case where if you want to progress your character you need to get better, and more skilled at it. For a lot of people i think this creates a wall where it no longer feels as good to play.
We obviously have both games now, but i do feel like blizzard could learn some things from classic. I definitely think vanilla wow in 2004 would of been less successful if it rewarded skill over time to the same degree as modern retail.
I am sorry but I just have to use the āgetgudā meme here. Its only a good thing for people to improve to get better rewards.
In the old days. If the game was too difficult then you should get better at it(or quit it). Nowadays, if the game is too difficult then it must be dumbed down to your levelā¦
iām sorry, but you really canāt say that about vanilla. Maybe some other game, but in vanilla the hardest part about raids was getting 40 people together with stable internet and computers that could handle raids. Getting pvp rank in vanilla was always more about how many battlegrounds you did than being the most skilled pvper.
If anything the current game is much more about getgudā¦ I mean you want the best arena gear, get 2.2k rating, want mythic gear become a mythic level raiderā¦ This game is way more based around skill than it ever was in the past.
Uhmā¦I am talking about retail not Classic?
Classic is a different world for a different audiance, which I am not a part of at the moment.
My reply was to oppose the idea of dumping down retail to a level that the hardest part of the game isā¦remembering your login password.
wow as a game is not really high skill cap game. One can reach top within month or two if willing to commit and improve. People play at noob level because playerbase is relaxed and aged enough 30+40+ yo people who have little to no interest in trying too hard.
Yes but we dont need gear anymore. We can just decrease difficulty and dont worry about anything. Who cares if there is mythic level raid when i can just do LFR and experience entire content with out any skill at all. Gear means nothing. It gets completly reseted every patch anyway. Yes game is more skill based than classic but its optional which means nobady cares.
Beating content and getting gear in classic feels far more rewarding even when you need far less skill becouse there are no easy mods.
In retail, everybody has the same gear (provided you do your bare minimum every week). People who do only 10s and smash heroic every week have the exact same item level as people who put in the insane amount of effort of joining or running a cutting edge guild, they just acquire it in a little bit more time than a mythic raider does. I remember my lousy warrior tank alt in BoD when it was current, it had 409,5 equipped while my main had 414, my alt did not step into BoD on ANY difficulty (not even LFR), I literally just did 2 +10 keys every week and waited some weeks to open my chests. So no, you need neither time nor skill in retail to have the gear, you need skill for cutting edge achievements and thatās about it. Wonāt comment on PvP because I donāt do it but since itās also a subject to titanforging retardation, I think that aside from titles and achievements and mounts maybe, high end PvPers donāt have anything to distinct themselves from their lousy 1800 rating counterparts. And no, cosmetics donāt count, your character isnāt visibly more powerful.
firstly a + 10, and modern heroic raid is signifcantly harder than any content in classic. Secondly this is not true, as mythic gear is better than the gear from the weekly chest or heroic. Unless you are counting the fact youāll eventually get titanforge on everything with infinite timeā¦ in which case i donāt even know how to respond to that
I am quite sure no one had the best gear in vanilla by just leveling characters. Best items were always in raids. BFA is not exception to that. Sure, there were always exceptions to some items but no expansion was ever designed that you have no reason to venture into a raid dungeon at all unless you simply donāt want to raid.
In Battle for Azeroth, you will have plenty of time leveling, grinding reputations, unlocking flying and allied races and doing world quests for gear and upgrades you need, especially in Nazjatar. Sure, it gets boring after a while but that is not something you need skill to do. Ok, well for some people that might be a skill needed to do but you get my point.
But gear wise that puts you miles away from mythic raid quality gearā¦ Which, well requires skill, so while you can get gear without skill in bfa, u need a lot of skill (and also time) to get ābisā gear.
Just like vanilaā¦ U are pretty fine just from dungeon/quest gear especialy in first phases, but that doesnt matter u are good gearedā¦u are just geared
Exactly that, if you happen to be a mythic raider and someone who will do a lot of +10s (or whatever the gear cap level will be ) from the first week, then of course you will gear up faster than a casual. However, with time (and itās far from infinite trust me) you will get equally good gear just by smashing heroic and doing your weekly chest. In S2 I had 2 characters that were off by less than 5 item levels from my main by not actually doing anything apart from playing the game for 45 minutes per week while my mythic raiding main who also had 2,2k rio score had 412,8 item level.
The difference is more about how it feels in terms of playing the game. A system that rewards time put in means when ever you log on your making progress. You want your character to get better? just play it, do stuff and it will. There is a wall in retail where you want your player to get better? well get better at the game, do your rotation, and fights perfectly, and get invited into a better guild.
A system that rewards time put in just makes you want to play, as your always progressing towards a goal. Itās like the people who like starcraft co-op leveling a commander. Or playing lots of other games, where you just play and make progress, unlike the more starcraft 2 multiplayer design where you get better and make progress. Which is what parts of retail are based on
.