Remove current WoW team from the office when time comes. And sent that token selling Ybarra to North Korea.
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Imagine CEO - boosting players for tokens… It can only happen in Blizzard.
There are plenty of things in WoW that I don’t consider enjoyable and therefore don’t “defend”.
But since I generally enjoy WoW and have enjoyed it for many years, it obviously goes to reason that I like the general design of the game, because it clearly caters to my preferences in gaming.
We play the games with designs we like, because those are the games we enjoy.
At least us “not sane” people do.
Not sure what you “sane” people do. Play games you don’t enjoy with designs you don’t like?! 
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Mate ignore this guy as I did. You will keep a lot of sanity. It’s not worth discussing with him. He will defend devs no matter what. 9/10 it’s Blizzard empolyee or at least ex-one. The amount of bias in his post just not normal.
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(=Stuff that people like)
(=People wouldn’t be forced to do content they dislike and would rather stay enjoying themselves with content they like)
Not really. As I can benefit from it being split even when I like 2 forms of content. Take me for example. I like farming mounts and I do PvP. I don’t want them to be necessary intertwined in convoluted way (like “if you have 500 mounts you do increased damage”) I consider that something bad. And it’d even poison the activity that I did enjoy, as now I’d feel it’s a chore rather than fun reward.
That’s exactly what’s wrong with that. You’re forced to play something you don’t enjoy before you’re allowed to play something you do enjoy. And that’s why people quit. As a lot of people don’t want to waste their time with something they hate and negatives outweight the positives. But the negatives are artbirary and wouldn’t need to be there.
The fun thing about World is actually that you kinda can pursue whatever you want.
Unfortunately World of Warcraft doesn’t really represent this much.
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he is everywhere 
he reminds me that dog siting in fire saying everythign is FINE meme
Right now I play a lot of Hades. I think it’s an amazing game. I would defend 99,99% of the design decisions in that game, because I think the general design makes for a great game experience.
Ergo I love playing it and I play it a lot.
To me that’s a perfectly reasonable position to have on a game and I don’t think many would oppose it.
Everyone has played games which they think are amazing and therefore see the game’s design as also being amazing, because it caters to them as gamers.
So why is it blasphemy to take that position on WoW?
Why is it more accepted to say that WoW is a flawed game with flawed design, and is therefore worthy of a lot of criticism?
…Oh and by the way, then I’m also going to play WoW for numerous hours every week for countless years despite saying the above…
Where’s the logic in that?!
That’s like playing Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six for years and years, whilst always being super critical about the game revolving around stealth and tactics and wanting it to be more like Doom or Call of Duty where you just get to blast away all the time.
That’s not sensible. We generally play the games with the designs we like. So if we like the design of Doom or Call of Duty, then we play those games and not Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six.
And likewise, if we don’t like the design of WoW, then it’s more reasonable to play some other MMORPG with a design we do like, rather than continuing to play WoW for years and years on end – whilst being upset about the game’s design.
If I really didn’t like borrowed power in WoW and felt it was very detrimental to my enjoyment of the game, then I would probably just go and play Guild Wars 2, which is a game that has a different design in that regard, and which I might therefore enjoy more.
I don’t see how I’m the odd one for playing a game that I enjoy, whilst you’re all sitting here being upset about a game you’ve chosen to play but seemingly don’t enjoy.
I have zero conflict of interest between my opinions on WoW and me playing WoW. And that strikes me as normal and sane and how gaming should be approached.
Play the games you enjoy, because you enjoy them.
#rant #moralhighground 
Because generally people who defend it, don’t really try to compete in anything, they just like to dabble with a lot of content, but they don’t really engage fully in any form of any content, and simply roam around.
Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong about that.
The wrong part is, when you not only defend your option to do, but when you defend the requirement to do.
People don’t mind you liking the game or your gameplay. People mind when they have to have same gameplay, because they can’t focus on what they enjoy as some arbitrary systems are mandatory and have to be grinded in content they may not particulary enjoy.
So tell me, do you now understand?
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Yes and no.
I’ll use an absurd example to maybe get a point across.
Let’s say I wanted to play Call of Duty, but I really didn’t like the fact that I was required to use weapons and shoot people, because I would rather just run around and chop trees and build houses, and why shouldn’t I have the option to do that?!
Which is the criticism people seem to have with WoW, though less absurd.
WoW is designed as a cohesive game experience where you – through your character – embark on journey in the world of Warcraft that ideally takes you here and there and everywhere and progress from zero to hero by doing so.
And then some people say something like: “Sure, but I don’t like that, so why can’t I just hang out in Arenas and ignore the journey stuff?”
To which the annoying but simple answer is that you’re playing World of Warcraft and not World of Arena, and the design of the game is meant to support that game vision – not detract from it.
Likewise with Call of Duty. It’s about weapons and shooting each other. That’s the game vision, so that’s what the game’s design builds on and supports. Including options to chop trees and build houses would detract from the core game vision.
With WoW it’s as if some players like the idea of what the game could be, rather than what it is.
And whilst it’s reasonable to say to Blizzard that I think Hunters deal too much damage and maybe they should be nerfed, then it’s less reasonable to say that I don’t like the whole world part of World of Warcraft, so can’t we just get rid of that?
Fair be it if that’s a person’s opinion and thinking, but it’s the equivalent of trying to move a mountain.
In your example, that requirement didn’t however suddenly become prevalent. Call of Duty wasn’t game about chopping trees ever and players didn’t start quitting only after they made everybody play only the mode with guns.
So your absurd example doesn’t really work and isn’t an analogy to current situation in any way.
There’s a journey in arenas as well.
And this is basically your answer to your question why is it more acceptable to hate you defending bad systems instead of people pointing out flaws.
Because you wish others to be forced to play as you wish, while others don’t wish to force you to play in any way. That’s why their position is more accepted.
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I don’t think WoW has changed its fundamental gameplay vision since it was released in 2004.
The gameplay design is more modernized today, but it still infers the same vision that it’s a journey and a cohesive character experience, and not a collection of isolated mini-games that can be played independently of each other.
No. There’s a journey in World of Warcraft that includes Arenas. But it’s not Arenas alone. It’s not anything alone. It’s “glued” together.
The way the game presents itself is as Azeroth. Northrend. Pandaria. Shadowlands.
That’s the journey. That’s the gameplay experience. And that’s the vision that Blizzard have always fostered with WoW. It’s about journeying through the world of Warcraft and going to wherever it takes us, and the various aspects of the game (arenas, raids, dungeons, quests) are tools that enable and enhance that experience.
That wasn’t really what bewildered me. I merely questioned why it was perceived as insane to speak positively about a game you enjoy playing, versus it being perceived sane to play a game that you criticize and don’t enjoy.
That struck me as illogical.
I return to my absurd example from before.
A game doesn’t benefit from just catering to everyone’s whims about everything. Then you would end up with chopping trees and building houses in Call of Duty, because why would you deny someone’s fun?
A game benefits from reinforcing its own gameplay vision, which is to shoot people in Call of Duty, or to embark on a journey in World of Warcraft.
And that may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but that’s why different games exist – because people have different preferences. One game for everyone is not realistic.
Well then you have no argument whatsoever if somebody asks to return to pre-Legion era where there were no mandatory borrowed power systems and forced content like Torgast, Island Expedition etc.
Apparently not for you, you have not won single arena or RBG this season it seems.
How about players choosing what’s their journey instead of you choosing it for them?
Well what the game doesn’t benefit most from is catering to you, as the more they make content mandatory, the more player quit the game.
See this:
I won’t, since it failed as an analogy.
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Sure there was. There always has been character progression systems and there always has been temporary power and power resets.
It’s true that ever since Legion Blizzard have formalized it more into actual features like The Artifact Weapon or The Heart of Azeroth.
But even in Mists of Pandaria you had Charms of Good Fortune, which were a currency acquired through outdoor world content that would provide you with bonus rolls for raiding – so you could get more gear and thus more power.
It wasn’t a system that was blown up to be a huge feature like The Artifact Weapon, but it was still a system that rewarded you with character power in one aspect of the game by engaging in another aspect.
Vanilla WoW had the Honor system, which was a system that provided gear through PvP.
So if you did Molten Core, then you could get character power through the gear that dropped there. But if you also did PvP, then you could get even more gear and thus even more character power.
First thing I did in TBC was to farm reagents for the Frozen Shadoweave set, because it turns out that Professions are also a system that provide character power in the form of gear.
And that character power was very temporary, because gear tends to get replaced each tier.
With The Artifact Weapon and The Heart of Azeroth it’s basically the same, you just get to hold onto those pieces of gear throughout an entire expansion. But it’s still temporary.
So there’s nothing revolutionary different about the character progression in WoW. It’s just been modernized and the power progression has been formalized into bigger features rather than simple systems.
No, but I have played both Arenas and Battlegrounds in Shadowlands.
Why? Because they’ve been part of the journey. There are some nice Attendants in Oribos who offer you quests for engaging in PvP for various obscure reasons (there’s room for improvement!). Blizzard even added a new Arena that’s inspired by Bastion.
So it’s part of the journey of Shadowlands.
Again, I don’t think that’s the gameplay vision that Blizzard has for WoW.
I think it’s traditionally been said that WoW is a theme park where Blizzard leads you by the nose.
Other games are more of a sandbox where you’re free to do as you please and make your own journey. But that’s never really been WoW. It’s always been very structured (hence why people feel they’re “forced” to do x, y, z).
Well it’s for Blizzard to decide what audience they want to try and cater their game to through their design and development. That’s kind of their prerogative. I can only say that I support what they have done so far, because I enjoy the game.
I mean, it’s like Mars who make the Snickers chocolate bar. There are peanuts in it. Some people don’t like peanuts. So should Mars remove peanuts from Snickers so those people would like it? Then what about the people who like Snickers because it has peanuts in it?
Well there’s a Mars chocolate bar for the people who don’t like peanuts, but seemingly some people only want Snickers, but they don’t want peanuts. So…
You can’t please all, and neither can Blizzard.
Exaggeration promotes understanding, but I recognize that I don’t always get my thoughts across very well. But it’s the best I can do.
Sure. And ever since BFA players absolutely hate it.
Why don’t you have any rating now?
Yes, and since their vision is failing and it’s losing players, it’s reasonable to ask, so they change their vision, so people can enjoy it.
The issue isn’t that it’s exaggerated, but that it fails to copy the necessary relations.
I have no issue with exaggerations. But when you compare change of “vision” that developers had to some game that didn’t have change to vision and say “look they also cannot cater to everyone”, then you absolutely missed the point and failed at analogy.
Nobody asks for WoW to become different game, but rather to have stuff more optional as it was in past.
I still don’t see why you feel like you need to micromanage every other player. Just let them have fun and play whatever they enjoy. If you can’t respect or tolerate other players, then don’t be surprised when they don’t cheer for you as you wish them to have ultimatum of “play as I want to play or quit”. Which results in them quitting.
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I don’t know if that’s true. I can only speak for myself and say that I quite enjoyed these features.
I am not a business analyst for Blizzard, and I’m not going to pretend to be either.
But I have heard Ion say in a Q&A that he recognized the feedback that some players felt a lot of the character progression was unrewarding because it was temporary and lost by the end of a tier or expansion. And he also alluded to the fact that Blizzard might err more toward permanent character progression in a future expansion.
So it’s not like it’s one or the other. Either the game has borrowed power or it doesn’t. I think Blizzard often uses a pendulum as an analogy, where their design tends to swing heavily to one side and then the other before finding a sweet-spot in the middle.
I haven’t played any Rated PvP since the first Season of Shadowlands. And ratings reset after each Season.
Sure. Like I said earlier, then I think this feedback is the equivalent of trying to move a mountain. But fair be it if it’s what people think and feel. I’m not objecting to anyone expressing these thoughts – I just don’t agree with them.
Well like I said, then I do the best I can with the writing that I am capable of. I recognize that I am no Mark Twain with words; English is not my mother tongue. But I’ll keep in mind what you said for the future and try to word my thoughts in a different – and hopefully more understanding – manner.
Thanks! 
I don’t see how I am being disrespectful or intolerant of other players.
I simply responded to a poster who seemingly didn’t know of anyone who liked these borrowed powers and had rarely seen people defend it. I found that to be a fair input to provide on a discussion forum that I enjoyed them and my reasons why.
That other people then say that I’m not sane and that I should be ignored and that I’m probably a Blizzard employee and that I don’t understand what’s being said and fail at analogies and there’s merit to people hating me and…
…What were you saying about me not respecting and not tolerating other players again?!
It goes both ways. Mutual respect. Mutual tolerance.
Phil Spencer had enough of Torghast and Blizz’s BS so he woke up one day and thought screw it I’m gonna buy Actiblizz so they are forced to sought out their S*$t
That’s what I said, you corrected me that I’m wrong, but I was right.
Why should you then decide how PvP should look, when you don’t even engage in it?
That’s such a control-freak move that you’d like to micromanage playstyle of other players and how they play an aspect of the game that you don’t even engage with. At all.
I didn’t reply to your disagreement, but rather to your susprise why people dislike your agenda that’s defending these systems and not pointing out flaws with them.
It’s for the same reason why people dislike totalitarian regimes. They simply want to live as they please and not be micromanaged in every aspect what they do and dictated what they must do.
By advocating them to be forced into playstyle that you wish them to have rather than letting them enjoy whichever part of content they want. That’s disrespectful to what they enjoy.
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I don’t see why I have to engage in PvP on a constant basis in order for me to express my views on it and argue my interests.
That’s gatekeeping.
And I’m not really arguing anything about PvP. I’m arguing the merit of World of Warcraft being the single and cohesive game experience that it is, because that’s the design that I enjoy WoW for.
Like I said earlier, then if I preferred a different design, then I would play a different game.
It’s Blizzard’s design. I just support it because I enjoy the general game experience it fosters.
If my previous analogy didn’t hit its mark, then neither does this one. A tad too extreme to associate my personal thoughts on WoW with totalitarian thinking. I don’t really appreciate that. I hope you can understand why.
I am not advocating that anyone should be forced to do something they don’t like.
I am saying that I enjoy WoW, and therefore I approve of Blizzard’s design, and I have argued why (cohesive experience, single journey, character-driven game).
And I have also said that I think it’s fair that people express their criticism on Blizzard’s design (even though I don’t agree).
All I have said in that regard is that I think it’s more logical (the sane versus insane notion) to just play a game you enjoy, rather than one you don’t. But I respect people’s prerogative to do as they please.
I enjoy that WoW is a cohesive game experience and you want Blizzard to put a stop to that.
How’s that not disrespecting my enjoyment then?
There’s no pleasing everyone when one’s desire conflicts with another’s.
That’s crazy talk… PVP players are only here because PVE content subs, allow the Devs to periodically throw raw meat and Lego™, from the balcony.
Can you translate to English I don’t understand what you mean. That PvP player are there only because of of PvE content? I don’t get it.
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