It’s ridicolous that matchmaking can put you in a game where it expects you to win everything otherwise you lose rating.
If someone goes 0-6 it means he was clearly the weakest link, the uncarriable. Maybe he had lags, maybe he got a phone call, maybe he got a wife aggro or maybe his MMR ended up way above his skill level. No matter what was the reason, if he ends the match at 0 wins, it’s clear that nobody was able to carry him.
If your MMR is much higher than others, you end up in a scenario where you need to carry that person, otherwise you LOSE rating. It’s very unfun to get be in a game where nothing you do can save you from losing cr. If that guy is lagging, or afk (without leaving the game), there is literally nothing you can do about it.
This is especially true to healers, it SUCKS to go 3-3 and lose rating anyway (though it can happen to dps too, just not so extreme).
TL:DR if there is someone in rated solo shuffle that goes 0-6, end result for others must be at worst 0 rating change.
Your suggestion is ignorant, but the problem you talk about is real. But the way to solve it is to fix the matchmaking, not by giving people free passes.
The MMR spread of people is simply too large sometimes, Blizzard needs to keep it more within reason.
You are the ignorant one here, because you completely missed a point where scenario of someone going 0-6 might as well be result of that person not playing properly for skill unrelated reasons like lag/irl disturbance.
MMR doesn’t matter in this case, because you lose rating even though it was someone else’s problem. It creates scenarios where you lose rating no matter what you do. It should never be the case, no matter the mmr.
So yeah, way to be ignorant while throwing out “ignorant” buzzwords.
Oh boy… Don’t force me to write a wall of text about how rating systems work and what they’re for, please. Enough people should know it by now.
The problem isn’t that a player isn’t participating or playing poorly, that’s simply what happens in every solo queue game at some point. The reason people will still lose rating, is because the MMR spread of the players in the shuffle is too large. Meaning that person’s MMR was way below yours, so much so that it doesn’t even matter that you got 4-2 in w/l, it’ll still count the difference between your personal rating and the team’s MMR as being too wide.
It’d be like a high rated player playing with a much lower rated player. Get it yet? They win nothing, but they lose a lot when losing.
As for why it DOES count as a free pass, is because it stops the rating system from doing its thing. The PROBLEM is that it shouldn’t have ended up like that with the MMR spread in the first place. But once you ARE in that situation, you as a much higher rated person are expected to carry, and if you can’t then you’ll suffer the consequences.
its just that mmr is pepega currently. i was at 2.2 mmr from 0 up to 2.1 cr. pretty weird and not how it will be in df (atleast i hope). in df u will get a reasonable mmr based on how u perform and u will be matched with people similar to that.
sb with 500 cr just doesnt lose points even if they go 0-6 in a 2.2 mmr match.
MMR in off season prepatches has had some funky times throughout past expansion launches, but there’s no real guarantee that it won’t be like this in DF. I hate it too, but it is what it is.
Wow, you really don’t get it. Very ironic for someone to throw around insults while being in the wrong.
There will always be situations where matchmaking will have to put players at huge differences in one game, because there will always be people with extremely high or extremely low MMR, otherwise they would never get to play a game. Same applies to people playing in low traffic times like very early in the morning.
If matchmaker puts together people at extremely different MMR, it can’t punish the high mmr person with rating drop if it’s not possible to carry the low end one.
So yeah, maybe it’s time to drop this horrible attitude of yours. If you want to discuss with other people then maybe it’s time to learn some manners.
No, the parameters are set by Blizzard, upon which it then expands the longer the time you spend in the queue. When you only sit for 10 minutes, that shows the parameters are either expanding too quickly, or starting off with a too wide spread to begin with.
Yes, it can. That’s the intended purpose of a rating system. It’s not a very accurate rating system when it matches such people together to begin with, but there’s nothing you can do about that.
You mean an attitude like this?
while not even understanding what is being explained to you. Bravo.
Was it me who started to throw out “ignorant” and “fool” insults, completely unprovoked?
You still didn’t get the point, which is sad, but given your posting history it is clear to me that you are just trolling and making clueless posts on purpose to stir discussion.
The point stands still. The scenario that you can lose rating even though it was impossible to carry one player is going to exist no matter the hypotethical change to mmr.
Yeah, sure, next thing you gonna tell me calling someone “fool” because you don’t agree with that person is also not an insult, and a way civilisied and intelligent people hold a conversation?
Even if you were right, the way to call other posters ignorant and fools shows what kind of person you are.
And I already explained to you why MMR spread won’t be able to completely remove situations where disparity between lowest and highest players in a match can’t be avoided. But you deliberately chose to ignore this. That leads me to a conclusion that you are not here to have a discussion.
Ignore the point, call poster names, post random memes. Sorry but you are not a discussion partner for me.
Because you apparently thought ignorant is an insult no matter what. That’s a you-problem.
In case you didn’t know, it can be used in negative connotations to become an insult, like for example the way you used it. But it can also be used in a neutral fashion, and as a pure observation. Learn the difference.
You STILL don’t get it? Reducing MMR spread makes wins outweigh losses, ergo getting 4-2 in w/l during a shuffle would then result in gaining CR/MMR. Get it now?
It all depends on how close you’ll be to the lowest MMR’ed player in the shuffle.
It’s an insult when I said it, but it’s ok when you used it… Man, you are ridiculous.
And yes, I get it, it’s the perfect solution to never have people with MMR so spread that 3-3 or 4-2 would result with cr loss. But reality is it won’t happen for reasons I already mentioned twice. And you chose to ignore it twice. So like I said, no point discussing this with you anymore.
Let me try with an example, maybe it will be clear enough for you then.
Someone is very bad at his mmr drops to 800. It’s so low, that matchmaker is unable to find 5 people with mmr low enough to create with mmr so close that 3-3 or 4-2 wouldn’t be considered a loss for them. It will have to match this 800 mmr guy with someone like 1400ish or whatever. What then? Someone is losing rating even though there was nothing he could do.
Comparing ^ that to a matchmaking with parameters that starts closer or doesn’t spread as fast (depending on what’s causing this mess in the MMR spread), the difference in amount of players in the pool that you can be matched up with within those 10 minutes, won’t change much.
Because when others near your range stop getting matched up with those in other rating ranges so often, then they’ll be kept near your range for a longer period of time. Meaning the queue times wouldn’t be as affected as you’re making it out to be.
As for the ones at the top of the ladder, they’d get longer queue times if others near their rating doesn’t keep queuing at the same time, sure. But that’s what it means to be that high rated, it’s dysfunctional if they keep getting matched against opponents they get no rating from over and over again.
I never said it will stop doing that completely. But the problem, in essence, can be fixed to the level that it becomes the same as in the normal ladder.
In case you didn’t know, there are people that plays quite a lot on 800 mmr in every season. They’re not exactly vocal on the forum, but drop your rating and see for yourself and you’ll find out.
So you missed the point… again. It doesn’t matter if it’s 800, 600 or 300. It’s an example. The point is, that there will always be outliers on both ends of the matchmaking system. What are you going to do with these outliers? Tell them “sorry, your mmr is too low/high, you won’t be getting games anymore because we can’t match you with anyone”?
Not to mention that better mmr spread on matched players would mean longer queues on every bracket. It’s already 5+ minutes for dps on mediocre mmr like 1800-2100. On 2400+ it’s 8-9 minutes. And that’s with MMR that’s all over the place. You are very naive if you think they can tweak the system without making queues a lot longer. Or maybe you are ok with it, but I don’t think that’s a very popular take (or that it’s shared by blizzard).
So yes, games with big disparency will happen. And when they do, the system needs to protect the player who would lose rating when matched with very low mmr player who goes 0-6.
What are you not understanding? It won’t prevent them getting matched, it’ll just take longer time for them to be matched. It’s the same way the matchmaking parameters are set to in the normal ladder. How often do you face opponents in the normal ladder that you gain no rating from when you win? Hm? Come on, share with the class.
What part of this didn’t you understand now?:
^ That again, can’t be done. It goes against the purpose of a rating system in the first place. This is why I said you’re ignorant of the subject matter, as you’ve shown over and over again in this thread.
And you miss the point (again, thats strike 3 now).
You can’t compare this to normal ladder, because in normal ladder you will never be in a situation where you techincally win and lose rating. So this whole point is an illogical nonsense.
As for the part where you “think queue times wouldn’t be much longer” it’s just your guess work and without data that neither you nor I have, it’s just a speculation.
That’s why I compared it to winning against an opponent you don’t win rating from, as it’s the closest analogy.
The reason you LOST rating, is because you’re technically playing 6 matches per shuffle. So winning those 4 didn’t outweigh the rating lost from those 2 losses. Get it yet?
Without official Blizzard matchmaking data, that can’t be said “with proof”. It’s an estimate, because it doesn’t require a genius to figure out if they don’t get slotted with people in other rating ranges as fast as they are right now, then they’ll stick around a little longer near their own rating range, and so they fill the empty spots others left in their rating range, and that goes for the bulk of the ladder.
This is why you need to understand how rating systems work.
Oh right, that reminds me, since it seems you need the deep-dive as to HOW your suggestion reeks of ignorance:
When nobody lose any rating except for the player with 6 losses, every time there’s such a shuffle, despite the fact that there should be rating losses due to the wide MMR spread as explained earlier.
What do you think happens?
What happens is a domino effect of increased inflation. Do you need the explanation as to why increased inflation is bad?
And this “closest analogy” is completely irrelevant because the situation is different. The worst outcome in constructed arena is 0 rating change if mmr disparity between teams is too high. This is exactly how it should be in rated solo shuffle. You can’t look at 6 matches of shuffle as seperate games, because if someone goes 0-6 then it means it wasn’t possible to carry such person and you are getting punished with cr loss despite the fact that there was nothing you could do to prevent it.