Temp is an ability that takes good awareness to use effectively though, I feel like removing ability’s that require skill to use is bad, if you use it to late or soon you get very little value but if you use it at the right times it can top you from 10%, maybe they should just nerf the value you get from it… feint is kind of similar like pre feinting stuns etc as a Rouge takes good awareness… if you see what I’m trying to say, maybe increasing feints CD would be a better option?
I think nerfing defensives is the wrong way to go about it. Yes they’re very strong, but at the same time, they’re kinda needed due to how squishy the classes can be. The only nerfs to their defensives I think would be fine, is if you’d increase the cooldown on temp shield, cloak and evasion by like 33%.
The way I’d go about it would be to nerf internal bleeding, having kidney not only be a low cooldown 6 second stun, but also deal a large amount of damage is probably a bit much.
As for mage I’m not entirely sure what you could nerf that wouldn’t also massively impact pve, probably the shimmer nerf that’s coming in shadowlands for it to not have 2 charges?
Yeah reduce chaos bolt damage and increase damage from other things, also put mortal coil on fear DR would be a good start
All Mage and Rogue abilities are skillful, but something has to go. It’s a matter of having an overloaded kit. And the most obvious offenders, to me, are Feint and Temporal Shield.
Also, Mage is a bigger offender than Rogue (as there are many more MXX comps than RXX comps that are viable).
I see that you’re trying to redirect everything towards nerfing Rogues, but that’s not how to actually fix the problem of Mages and Rogues no longer being glass cannons.
That’s been reverted bac to 2 charges but with a 25 second CD per charge up from 20
I’m not? I suggested alternatives for both, nerf the value from Temp and maybe have Feints CD increased. As for dmg remove MS on Rouge and nerf how mastery scaling works so Fire can’t take as much advantage of the mastery x3 Blaster Master traits give, people don’t realise by a lot of the dmg in a Mages burst comes from the Ignite DoT from the Fireblast and Pyro spam during Combustion.
I gave these suggested offense and defence on both Rouge and Mage in a pervious post.
Nerfing blaster master in pvp like they did with flashpoint for warlocks would also be a step in the right direction, I agree
In my opinion, Rogue simply shouldn’t have Feint + Evasion + Vanish + CloS.
In my opinion, Mage simply shouldn’t have Ice Block + Cauterize/Frost Snap + Temporal Shield.
Ice Barrier used to be good enough (and that’s without 2x Shimmer). Cheat Death used to be good enough. Yes I know the game has changed, but some things have to go back, in my opinion.
If one doesn’t want to commit to just removing them (which I think one should) one should, in my opinion, strongly consider nerfing their effectiveness massively (like, an 80% nerf).
I can’t find where you proposed this one. Maybe I’m blind but I can’t find it. If you did then I apologize.
I really don’t think nerfing Mage burst is the way to go. RMX lives and dies of how successful it is at bursting people down.
If anything Mage and Rogue sustained damage can be nerfed. But the nerfs to sustained that I’ve seen so far would only result in Rogues getting nerfed which is not a good outcome according to me. I guess that’s because Mage really doesn’t do a whole lot of sustained, it’s Assa that’s bringing the sustained.
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Mage sustained isn’t very strong though, at least not with a rogue where you’re rarely playing greater, and rarely playing expedient. The way a mage can create sustained pressure in RMX is with CC, which nerfing shimmer could help accomplish.
I also think internal bleeding is way too strong as it is right now.
Yeah, I added that to my post while you were posting.
I do want to address this from a Mage stand point, can’t speak for Rouges on it.
But Ice barrier breaks within 1 or 2 to seconds these days and with melees for example having so much mobility that they can have almost 100% uptime while doing 30k+ DPS (in current arenas), if you were to straight remove or nerf Temp by 80% you wouldn’t be able to survive very long at all vs DK’s, DH, WW, Rouges, Hunters, Ferals and even Warriors currently (Warriors have a Charge and Heroic Leap for both blinks, Blade storm and Avatar to break Novas). yes you can cast polymorph to peel for yourself but by the time you haven’t gotten through their kicks and micro cc’s to stop your casts you’d be forced into Iceblock, you could argue that instead of trying to Ply the DPS off the Mage should Poly the healer and go offensive, but the same problem exists, by the time you get through the kicks and micro cc’s you’d need to Iceblock, your healer could PS you but since you have no setup or pressure its better to block. Casters in general HAVE to be tanky these days because of the melee up time and amount of disruption they have.
The comment I made about temps value is under the one where I asked you which def cds you are talking about.
I don’t really think Mage and Rouge should do a lot of consistent dmg though, in the past its been a comp that wins on setups and doesn’t little dmg in-between those setups. I think that play style is a lot better, but wouldn’t work very well in current WoW because some comps you just can’t get setups against, MLD is a good example of this… you have to play the mana game and OoM the Rdruid by pumping all game and klepting his hots.
Sorry for the text wall.
Wrong reasoning. Give back abilities to others instead of making the game even more casual by removing stuff yet again.
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Tbh, I’d like to see blink removal but at same itme I’d like to strip mobility from ww and dh (think warrior is fine).
Too many classes can insta port with infinity (and beyond). Also, i like unprunning in SL.
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ahahaahah says the dogshizz xaen noob play rmx to get free gladiator season 1 and season 4. imagine playing assassination with full gushing this season in RMZ OMEGATROLLLZZZZZZZ. Dogshiz trash
Wait a minute you are playing RMPala, managed to cheese 2.7 this season and you are legit trying to boast on here? You do realise your real rating is probably 2.3-2.4 max if its minus BFA(LULZ), RMPala(OMEGATROLLZ) and corruptions(UBERLULZ) right?
Uh, not at all.
And, not that it’s important or anything but you seem to care about my rating for some reason, regarding your little sentence at the end of your message… I actually also got 2.5 as Thug Cleave (not this season btw, in the past) which I don’t exactly consider as OP broken in this expansion, aaaand I already went closeish to 2.7 earlier too (before RMPala, before corruption etc). So, I don’t think I agree with you. But thanks for caring about my wow life.
That being said I’m very glad I’m important enough for you that you wrote your post to me with decent english !
Imagine being so tilty about other players haha. How sad you must be haha .)
@Shadenox, just ignore that guy, seems he’s bit t arded irl
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Depends on what you mean when you say “skillful”. Cauterize is kinda like Legion’s auto-Bubble. Same thing could be said about the Cheat Death you previously mentioned. Subterfuge has always been a huge culprit, imo. Feint can be used insanely well, but I think it has a very low cd for what it does/can do.
I think I agree with this approach more. I get scared at the thought of Blizzard removing more abilities. We all know what they’re capable of, by now.
I believe that the way to go would be to bring more “game changing stuff” back instead of further removing tools.
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I mean, a few expansions ago I would’ve said the same.
Right now a few specs and classes (Warlock, Mage, Rogue - mainly) are head and shoulder above the rest of the specs/classes when it comes to the size and effectiveness of their toolkit.
The problem however is that we’ve had 2 expansions (including SL) for Blizzard to rectify this issue, and even now, in the “unpruning” expansion, this unbalance in toolkits is not being rectified. Other classes aren’t getting things they want back (relative to RM/W), and at the same time Mage, Rogue, Warlock aren’t losing things they should be losing to offset it. Thus it’s very convinient to always claim that “just unprune the others relative to Mage/Rogue/Warlock” when everyone knows that’s just not going to happen, as has been proven over 2-3 expansions now.
Another thing is, should Mage/Rogue be this tanky? Is that how RM should be designed? Previously that was not the design intent, with both classes being glass cannons, which can definitely not be said to be true nowadays.
So even if one did go down the route of “unprune others relative RM (and Warlock)” I still maintain that RM needs to be redesigned to have less defensives, so that when you actually start to get to them they die easily, and one ought to give them more control/burst options instead (just spitballing but things like Gouge, 70% Shiv slow, Deep Freeze?).
At the same time I also maintain that the amout of passive, stupid, anti-CC mechanics needs to be reduced (like Relentless, Interrupt immunities, Adaptation etc) so that we can finally get rid of this dumb dampening meta with meleecleaves or equivalent comps just livelording it until they win by ooming / one shotting something due to attrition.
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As I mentioned before… in modern WoW there is no “start to get them” you basically get them from the moment the game starts, Mage or casters in general are so tanky and have so many def CDs these days because Melee can literally have almost 100% uptime on casters with a ton of kicks/micro CC’s to disrupt casts, that’s why casters have so many instants these days also… its not that Rouge Mage needs to be redesigned its more the entire game needs to be redesigned. If you removed Temp or nerfed its effectiveness by 80% you couldn’t play Fire into melee cleaves, so you’re forced into Frost… then Frost doesn’t have the dmg output to kill a melee cleave faster than it kills the Mage… so a Mage would be forced into playing Mage Lock… and nobody wants more of that.
As I said before, cant speak from a Rouge pov as I have no exp playing one
It’s an arms race and currently Mage Rogue is winning it massively. Mage/Rogue has to start accepting that you can’t always be winning every single battle.
You can’t have:
- Great CC
- Great Burst
- Great Sustained (mostly Rogues)
- Great Survivability
- Great Mobility
Every single other class/spec has lost/never had two or three of these, but not Rogue/Mage.
I don’t disagree that the whole game needs to be redesigned, but it’s going to have to be one step at a time.
And what’s the harm in going Frost? You even have a second option that’s basically almost viable. That’s crazy.
What you need to accept and understand is that nobody except Rogue Mage (and possibly Warlock) has the luxury of always having an extremely strong comp and being extremely powerful in basically every department. It’s OK to not be S tier sometimes.
Almost every single comp in the game except RMx has counters. Well that’s an exaggeration because RMx does have some soft-counters, but nothing like most other comps do.
Destruction should be re-designed and quite possibly nerfed as well.
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