I’ll keep spamming you until you read these forums and change paladins from scratch. See you tomorrow.
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Stop crying
It’s not worh to give feedback anymore they don’t listen. I’ve already stopped. They have all other classes to worrie about
Unistall the game.
Retribution is great in DF, they have not that much utility but hey a hunters doesnt have that either, dps wise well what can i say atm its good.
High end mythic raiding is just ALL about utilities, what makes RL take me as ret when he can take literally any other meele that would provide for raid team ? I was already told, if they wont change ret I have to reroll in order to have raid spot.
Every single raid leader would tell you that, why ret ? tell me one reason why ret when literally every class can do what ret offers, in every case even better that ret and plus have much more to offer.
This isnt about dmg, no one cares about dmg in mythic raiding, they care what you can provide to team for **** sake. THIS is like jammed gramophone record…
If i would need to pick between 20K warrior and 30K ret i pick the warrior cause HP shout ( i rather safe 19 people in raid on aoe dmg phase, than have one dude doing 10k more than the other) . IF you get to the point where you wiping on enrage timer, THEN you dealing with dmg issues.
For your record, hunters may have no utilities but they are able to **** around with most boss abilities with turtle / feign death when you can skip some of the boss target abilities cause the game is designed they way when they feign death, boss just skip the ability because target is “DEAD”
they can CC most of the adds, they can slow them and as really mobily ranged they are the ones in charge of dealing with specific abilities and phases like soaking, kitting etc.
but hey what can I expect from a causal player who didnt seen a single mythic boss right …
[quote=“Clärity-kazzak, post:8, topic:391882”]
but hey what can I expect from a causal player who didnt seen a single mythic boss yet?
True i have never seen a mythic boss yet, but i kinda dont want to see that, certainly not in DF because when you do your MYTHIC BOSS i will do m+ and get the same loot as you in your 3 - 4 hour time spent period. So yes its my choice also dont have the time to do it.
Completely out of topic statement and understanding of the problem.
The main problem most paladins have given with the spec isn’t that the numbers aren’t great.
the numbers don’t matter, it’s the playstyles that feel clunky and unfun
You could make it the strongest class through tuning numbers but it would still feel clunky and unfun to play
Its playstyle is weird, alien and honestly if you compare the talent trees to others it feels like its not even designed for the same game.
The paladin tree revolves around dodging bad choices and trying to get as few points spent in talents you will get 0 use out of but are the only way to get a mandatory talent.
I’ve tried making the prot tree but with AS for example no longer generating holy power all 3 protection capstones that revolve around it feel like they’re not as strong as they should be (because they are tied to the new holypowerless AS).
TL;DR the issue with paladins are not the numbers which are now irrelevant anyway because tuning is still ongoing, most of if not all the criticism has been this playstyle is not fun, there are no real choices in the talent trees, abilities which feel should be baseline paladin abilities are in the talents (crusader aura, cleanse, interupt which should never have to be talented for a melee class and yes even wings). Divine toll exists for all 3 specs but its not in the general class tree. Consecration based playstyle just isn’t fun.
Why are you even bringing up things like dps.
As i said the reason he did that is ↓.
Completely out of topic statement and understanding of the problem
Everyone finds what they like / love on that game. I really dont care that you will have same gear as me, that is not even the point of my comment. I like 3-4 hours in raid, you like 30 mins in dungeon. Bloody hell I am even happy people are able to get same gear in mythic+ as we get in raid (exceptions are later bosses where Item lvl is higher anyway, there should still be “something” that will generaly award you for playing and coordinating 20 people instead of 5)
The problem is we are as ret spec completely useless for raid enviroment, hell even in m+ group because we do not PROVIDE UTILITIES WE DESPERATELY NEED TO BE WORKING CLASS not a dead meat. SO before you post anything towards the problems we face here please, think it thru in your head again and try to understand what we talking about.
thank you.
Are you able to raid now with Ret? If so… why? Genuinely curious as to what changed with SL and DF Ret to make you lose a raid spot.
There are no expansions we had unique utility as a specc, well was a short while in vanilla only we could have the Kings buff but other then that… AoE WoG on 20 sec CD? And ive stated how limited offhealing actually is to be helpfull before.
No a I am not, I got perma benched because second enha shaman was better for raid team full of wars/ rogs if you wanna know. Basically whats happening is that I join semi-disbanded guild, we got CE after months of struggling because of lack of people, after CE there are like hundreds applications because of the CE and then it go the same way everytime.
Sorry bro we know ur good player but at this point we prefer other classes (because we can be picky now) and planning to push better WR next tier/expac and ret just wont fill the spot, you can still reroll to this or that. (which I decline) There is chat between me and my new RL for DF ( we have some history together)
Even with those people I played for so long and we know each other I got recommendation to think about reroll just because they wanna keep me in raid but not as ret. They would rather see me as mage, lock, Evoker.
SO i got the same questions in every guild after some time:
Why would I pick you and not second enha shaman ? he has windfury totem
Why would I pick you and not a DK, maybe he dont do dmg as you but he have AMZ.
Why would I pick you and not warrior who have HP shout and insane execute phase ? or even banner so ?
Why would i pick you and not DH when he have darkness ?? and incrase magic dmg taken to boss.
(and notice that I am talking JUST about meeles, not mentioning that rangeds are fairly like 60-70% of dps roster, everyone wants rangeds… nor they do more dmg they play mechanics on mythic bosses that is the thing cored to this game for years, basically you need like 3 to maaaaybe 5 meeles and believe me ret is not the favorite one)
You can go thru wowprogress and check literally hundreds of guilds and you will notice there are just a few rets somewhere and IF SO they mostly killed the ending bosses on rekill / farm. Just Because they wont fill any role on progress which means mythic = utilities. That is the hard truth for us.
AND YES there is expansion where we had uniq utilities: BIGGEST BOOM was MoP where we had 20% magical reduction for whole raid and 2x sacrifice without dmg taken restrictions so you was basically boosted druid bark and holy priest power word: barrier combined ! As years go by, raiding is more complex and improving, same as classes, specs and utilities. Demands on classes are higher and higher, and if you just dont provide utilities for bosses ? Then it gets into this hellstorm what is here for …kinda long time. Rets are meme spec which guilds just …endure them, because they are friends for years or those rets are actually officiers which you can also see on wowprogress or wowarmory. Simple as that.
if you wont get it or understand it after this post, I am sorry there is nothing much left to tell you friend
Devotion aura? Was not Ret unique tho but yes, it was very helpfull.
All i can find about HoSac is Absolve that was ret specific in MoP, removed all harmfull magic effects on target… is it a Glyph or the like you are talking bout?
https:// mop-shoot.tauri.hu/?spell=140333
All speccs had access to clemency. Made you able to cast HoF, HoP, HoSac and HoSalv twice.
So thats the best we had in unique utility in the past? Mainly the class, not the specc.
Btw…Divine protection back then: 1 min CD - Reduces magical damage taken by 40% for 10 sec. Was a base talent for all palas.
Yeah ur right, Devo was not ret uniq but it allowed you to stack paladins and for sure there was always spot atleast for 1 ret, back in days we were 3 rets. 2 holy, 2 prots
( Paladins uniq in general, that is what bothers me now with spellwarding why would only prot has it - we had some conclusions but w/e)
But since is really really long time ago, sac was 30% dmg reduction for rets same as today, except u had glyph that removed the dmg taken from it which means you used to full duration on the sac and didnt recieve any dmg from it.
I dont remember the divine protection to be fair, really so that is shot in the darkness for me.
Basically yes, the class not spec utilities but still, you wont take more than 1 prot to raid, and one holy maybe two at max, dps spots could be filled with multiple rets if we would have such utilities.
and I am sorry that I vent my frustration on you at previous post I just can’t handle the unfariness and i reached my peak at that point …
its hard to reroll 16 years old main …
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Kinda the reason they removed it, to avoid paladin stacking.
Same reason as above to why it was made prot unique (i would assume). Same reason Aura mastery is holy unique. They only want a set number of paladins in raid and Ret clearly falls out of the list here as they have 0 love for it.
Give it unique utility? NO!
Give it Mobility? NO!
Give it surviviability? NO!
Give it sustained DMG? NO!
Give it burst?.. We can compromise i guess, i mean we arent unreasonable.
Make it the best burst in game? NO!
All we getting is infinite nerfs and they don’t care about that. I am sure that we are going to get another nerf in the next blue post.We’ll see about that.
The time has come for me to wait for that so I could just laugh at it. I mean, if there is another nerf instead of like boost+rework I would laugh at blizzard
Nerfs aint the problem though they need to tune and balance whatever the state the spec is in thats to be expected, the problem is that no one in their right mind will take a Ret Paladin to a raid over another spec in their present state.
The only way Ret will be apart of RWF is if they are massivly OP which woulnt be good for the game. But if they are just a strong A tier damage dealer they wouldnt be brought because other A tier damage dealers would go before them.
What they need to do is give Ret a reason to be in the raid outside of damage a reason to exist.
exactly, there is nothing positive about the spec now.