I can’t even count the amount of times I been killed in a stun now. It is getting ridiculous. You know what, stuns are fine for most classes. However Rogues need their stuns changed, they need Cheap shot removed, I think Kidney is enough.
On my DH I get cheaped and killed left right and center. I don’t think the rogue model is holding up nowadays, it is an outdated mechanic to be able to stay in stealth permanantly and then be able to stun out of it STILL.
Over the years, rogues have gotten anything and EVERYTHING to help them stay in stealth and stun you out of it. It’s a joke. Rogues whine about stealth not working sometimes bla bla, but if you gave rogues stealth with the same mechanical problems of hunter pets, they would probably rage quit. They dont have it bad at all regarding their stealth mechanic. It is even stealth buffed vs certain classes. On DH if I throw glaive, it doesn’t take rogue out of stealth and into combat, it just deactivates stealth, so they can restealth instantly. That is just stupid faviroutism that is DISGUSTING.
Rogues don’t even have a counter class, why isn’t there a class that can just out and out counter stuns on them at all times. Why make the game about getting kills mostly when the opponent can’t control their character. It’s dumb.
I don’t care if i’m unrated or a scrub to everyone, I play casual PvP aand have done for a very long time, yet I have never had stuns be so painstakingly annoying before. They need to be handled properly, changed, given proper counter or removed.
If blizz made any class that just traight up cancelled rogues, i would play nonstop. My Ret is good, but using 3 and 5 min CDs just to stop a 20 sec cd stun is not the one.
Doubling HP in PvP would be a good place to start in this craptastic game right now.
OR just allow ALL defensives to be used while stunned.
Hi Reeco, I think you have a bit wrong opinion in this case but I have to admit that I agree a bit with you that Stuns compared to other forms of CC became to popular mainly due to PvE (M+ the most). Other forms of CC aren’t used that often as stuns so Blizzard kept adding them to every spec. Right now the only specs that have absolutely no stuns I can think off are Mages and Disc Priest. I’d love to see more Silences and other forms instead but now comming back to your point of view. I don’t think that removal of stuns would fix the game. In the current state of the game stuns feel mandatory to kills some specs. Also maybe you aren’t experienced enough and you try to get out of every stun and that’s why you die. You should only react to these that are kill atempts. If enemy Rogue didn’t press CDs during stun it means you can sit the stun and your healer will most likely keep you up. It requires some game experience to know it but saddly with current state of the ladder and gearing it’s extremely hard to learn.
That’s the problem, always looking at every argument as one ONLY aimed for Arena. The game is much larger than arena, as it stands arena in PvP is the least active part of the game. So we need to stop assuming everything is based around arena. I don’t play arena, I might if I didn’t have to constantly join a team etc. Haven’t done so since MoP tbh, just find it jarring to set a time to things tbh.
I am a shameless casual, and i think stuns are ridiculous for the game in PvP and something needs to be done about them.
It’s not like anything besides PvP talents are designed around arena. I’d rather complain about M+ players that asked for more aoe stuns to make more huge aoe stuns. Arenas is on the bottom of design priorities for Blizzard.
Make all stuns duration 50% less in pvp.
Or increase health by 50%. I don’t know why they increased versa by 40% in pvp but left the damage reduction alone. So dumb.
Overall though, i truly think a 50% health bumb in PvP would go a long way, adjust healer mana too, make them all OOM faster. That way you keep your fast games.
Cut hybrid healing down to pitence as well, make all dps classes heal 50% less in PvP.
OP has a valid point in regards to rogue though. It feels like they have no counter.
For example: As DK my counter would be druids. They have extrem mobility so that my 70% slow is mostly negated and they have good self-heal in every spec. I have to massively outgear or outplay them to win. That’s fine for me
But rogues have no real counter. They have been giving every tool to make sure they always win or can withdraw from the fight at will If it is going downhill for the rogue.
It is a class made for griefers and it has been made more annoying with every expansion.
… I can safely say that there are a lot of things you all can do to counter rogues that you aren’t doing right now. For example, are any of you controlling the positioning in the openers? Or are you just running around randomly until they pop out? In 3v3, controlling the positioning of where you get sapped and where they open is part of countering them. Then it’s about rotating CDs etc., there’s a whole script to it. If you don’t know the script, then you can’t really say there’s no counter.
It’s even easier in 2v2, the only annoying part is when you face double rogues.
Then enlighten us. Saying position is key and not specifying how to position on the opener is just as useful as saying bring enemy health to 0 and keep your health above 0
It depends on what you play and which map it is. For example, as a healer while playing with stealthers, you’re supposed to either stay in the starting area at specific spots, or in the dalaran sewers map you run either straight forward or straight to the left and hug the corner of the map there. It shaves down the angles of where they can attack you from, limiting their approach options, and makes it generally simpler to find them.
Then there’s also a whole script about how to play around the shadow sight, keeping track of spawn timers and so on.
If you’re playing a comp where none of you have stealth, then the healer needs to position themselves at a place with quick los while also shaving down their options in where to open from, while you as a dpser either hug your healer or max range your healer (it seriously depends on what you play and which map it is).
Or are you expecting me to create a video guide just because you can’t think of how to make it work for yourself?
There’s also the option of trying to find them, basically imagining where they could be at the specific moment from when the match started, while aiming to get in combat asap to either force a sap or get your healer into combat. It really depends on what you play though, for example hunting rogues with D&D in the opening of a match is a thing as a DK, and so on.
Ok generally my position in WSG and TP is out in the middle, there was no healer near me, was on my DH. This happened about 23-24 times, not sure.
In AB my position is many places tbh I don’t remember. Normally near the flag. This is the same EotS and DWG.
In the cart BGs it is normally on the objective. A lot of the times there isn’t a healer with me.
Not too much into Epic BGs as any melee and haven’t really done arena this xpac, due to time constraints and commiting to any particular time with another player. My family calls me out my office at random times, so no time to mess up someones chances of going for ratings, because my baby decided to do somehting stupid again and I get called out the office for the nth hundred time.
Anyway, I hope that gives you some more insight to advice me better.
BGs are in their very nature very random. As a DH you can occasionally use spectral sight at random, but you’re complaining about BGs. This is the arena forum.
Very different beasts. It’s why there’s a ress built into BGs. It doesn’t end with dying, when it’s so random.
But in the Maw, a roguearound my ilvl, can literally kill me in a stun. Happens all the time. I just want to know what I can do as certain classes, as it seems quite unfair to die in a stun with no way to counter. You trinket say a rogue stun, You enter blind with less health and now have to face up to 9 seconds of stun.
6s Kidney - 2s Cheap - 1s Cheap. Just incase the math was hard.
Problem is when players think all is fine based around arena. It isn’t. Anyway, don’t care, game is absolute dog. By far the worst xpac they released. Burst is stupid, control is stupid, gearing is stupid.
Admittedly, nothing will dethrown this game in the mmorpg market. However it WILL kill itself soon. the devs are making sure of that, and the elitists that keep insisting everything is fine.
No, it isn’t fine. Rogues are disgusting. They can even push through the script when they outgear you, so there’s that as well. But you yourself aren’t doing everything you can do to get more control over the situation, since you haven’t said you knew any of those things mentioned.
Thank you, fed up of people thinking if it isn’t in 3v3 then it isn’t pvp. If that is the case remove everything except 3v3. Honestly at this point they should consider it. See how far they get with subs when the lowest played pvp activity is the only one left.
Problem is, this is the arena forum. If you want to complain about war mode, then go to the general forum or whatever. Or go to the BG forum if you wanna complain about BGs.