Improved Leveling Experience

After leaving WoW for several years and missing every expansion from MoP to BFA (I played through part of BFA in fairness), I thought I’d share my experience and suggest a new way of leveling.

WoW is about the story, for me at least. By that I don’t mean reading every quest in detail or speaking with that random NPC who needs milk. I mean who is the villain, where did they come from and how do I stop them.

When I returned, the learning curve was huge. I got dropped into BFA and didn’t know what was going on. After some time outside of the game researching, I really hate that this is a thing that is so prevalent in WoW but anyway, I found out about Chromie time. I was so pleased that I could play the past expansions and learn what happened to get me up to speed. Well, I’m sure all readers here wont be surprised when I say that isn’t exactly how it turned out.

I’ll group the experience as I tried this on a number of alts across all missed expansions. I completed the opening scenario, some dungeons and a number of quests in the first zone and then I hit level 60 and get booted out to go to BFA. When I started BFA later as an alt, I was able to complete the main story in the initial three zones of Zandalar before hitting 60 but I missed out on Kul Tiras and Nazjatar and don’t really know what happened with the main villain, I never got to a point where I received a quest to go into a raid.

Then, I can’t remember what event it was but it took us to the Caverns of Time. It was during Nov or Dec last year if I recall correctly. In there stood an NPC which showed you cinematics from the previous expansions. Whilst this was good, it didn’t explain the full story and I was left with questions like “That was cool, what events led up to that happening?” or “That was cool, what happened after?”. Then, when the event ended, the NPC was gone and I don’t know if it is still in the game or not.

So, my suggestion:

For first time players, this will be the only option.

For alts of a max level player, have it so they can choose from Exile’s reach, their race’s starting zone but also add the third option below.

  1. You start off in your capital city, Orgrimmar or Stormwind and complete quests relating to original WoW. EDIT: So as the old world does not exist in earlier Chromie timelines, either add this back in, though I think that might be too much work as it wouldn’t have undergone the re-model, or start off with a detailed cinematic, showing what happened during vanilla WoW, the good, the bad and the dead. Then move to point 6, keeping the principles of points 2-5.
  2. You will quest and travel in the old world but incidental quests are removed and the only quests available work to advance the story of that expansion. Consider free flights between flight paths to ensure the player doesn’t spend too much time running between points (particularly prevalent in the older world).
  3. Throughout this, incorporate follower dungeons for every dungeon available for that release. There should also be function to queue into it to play with others, with a small wait time. Much like how the dungeon works in Exile’s Reach.
  4. Finally, the story ends with follower raids which works in the same way as above.
  5. Ensure that by the end, the player has been given the option of gear appropriate for that level.
  6. Once completed, you move on to The Burning Crusade and follow the same path as above but obviously, within Outland.
  7. Rinse and repeat this through all expansion up to 10 level below the current max level. At that point, you’ll get whisked away to complete the current expansion.
  8. At that same point, you could re-implement all of the missed incidental quest chains.
  9. You could also enable a feature where players can then go back to their race zone to learn more about their history. Though some alterations would need to be made as I’m pretty sure some, if not all, have quests which teach you to use spells.
  10. Keep War Mode an option but remove the Exp buff as this would skew the pacing.

Notes:

  • This wont be a quick fix
  • Obviously, that is a LOT of content to cover which means some quest chains might need to be amended slightly, removed altogether or added to in order for them to flow better.
  • There wont be a requirement to hit, for example, 10 levels per expansion. Just for the player to hit 10 levels below max by the time they finish the last expansion released.
  • I would imagine this experience would need to fit into a sandbox environment, much like how Chromie time currently works. Therefore, you’d need to factor in the player choosing to do something different, like maybe re-running dungeons multiple times which will impact xp gains. I’ll leave you as the experts to overcome that. Do you control the entire flow like Exile’s Reach or allow them to drift out of it but by doing so, they’d receive a message saying if they continue, they will leave the story campaign.
  • Allow all max level players the option to go back and complete this new chain. Remove item rewards and just give gold and maybe a new title as an achievement for completing it. Also allow it so that they can exit the scenario and re-join with their progress saved.
  • There might be some complaints that this removes people from the MMO environment but I’ve completed Exile’s Reach a number of times now and see people there. Even working together to take down Killclaw the Terrible and complete the dungeon. In addition, for anyone who has used Chromie Time, it’s no different there, very barren. If anything, at least this has everyone on the same path, so more chance of bumping into people. Then finally, leveling is so fast that I think this thought is just looking back at the old days. It’s not like that anymore in those leveling areas.
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Two questions:

  1. how much time do You think it should take? How many quests per level/expansion?
  2. what do You mean by this:

There’s no vanilla world in retail. Do You mean Cata?

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I agree 100% that something should be done for new players.

I don’t agree in the how (your suggestion). Its too convoluted, and it has to address the #1 issue this game has: Everything gets superseded by expansion packs. Including the cyclical level squish, stat squish and so on…

Let me propose to you a similar alternative. Its similar, but it would resist the test of time:

Exiles reach is a very succesful attempt at “new player” experience. But IMO its incomplete. Expand on it by making a whole new continent. With like 5-6 zones. It can be a Kalimdor island or something like that. It dosent even need to show up in the map.

With the following:

  • A completely independent story from WoW. You can have characters from WoW, but the “big baddie” should NOT be anything related to retail wow. This would allow for custom built new-player experience with out the “baggage” of having to explain previous expansions, AND, the baggage of Alt leveling complainers.

  • From a game-play perspective this quest line would be custom built for the new player. Not the casual player, not the alt leveler. SPECIFICALLY for new players. With engaging cinematic, tutorials everywhere… ect…

  • This quest line also allows you to play ALL the 3 specs of your class. With tutorials of course. It would use NPC dungeons to do dungeons. And if they want to be even more ambitious, maybe an NPC 10-man raid at the end. Or some NPC arena matches.

  • At the end of all this, you kill some generic “big bad” and end up in some coast-line at level 60. You talk to some “general” or something and he triggers a cinematic of “WoW story so far”. With special emphasis in the end, where you explain WHY your going to the most recent expansion. This general gives you lvl 60 greens and you get on a boat to DF.

  • In future expansions: You still reach level 60 at the end. But you also get an instant “boost” to [insert relevant level here]. And relevant gear. The boat would instead take you to WW or whatever expansion is relevant. And ALL the devs have to do is change the cinematic at the end.

DONE.

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  1. Based on how quick leveling goes now, I’d say that it should take the average player about 1.5-2hrs to cover off each expansion. As mentioned, a lot would need to be trimmed out.
  2. Wow, I completely missed that. It seems by even selecting TBC in Chromie, the world is still changed from the events in Cata which came after it. Never noticed that before and I’ll need to update my suggestion now. Thanks for the info :slight_smile:
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Was in a good spot with the SL pre patch. Then they ruined it again.

Going forward in TWW the new player expansion will be DF for their first character, this will give them dragon riding which is going to be the new standard going forward. Then it should work the same as previously where you get access to Chromie time for 2nd char onwards.

I’m not sure I’m in favour of side quests being removed, they are a great source of being able to vary your levelling journey. They have tried to improve quest marking to show what is the main campaign vs what is a side quest but I’m not exactly sure how much of that is applied to previous expansions.

Although I do think follower dungeons should be an option for all I don’t think they should be promoted as the primary option, just included like the queuing with others is. Follower dungeons are very slow but obviously an option that appeals to some types of player.

Not everyone who comes to world of warcraft is looking for a big lore experience. Many players including new players seeing as a means to get to end game which is where they can join friends etc. Others absolutely want a lore worthy experience. Some are upset that as a new player they can’t choose the timeline and it confuses many that Cata is actually how you get to do the revamped Vanilla zones.

I think if your levelling plan was adopted it would become very daunting for new players. That’s not to say it wouldn’t be perfect for you ofc :slight_smile:

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Do new players even know what they are missing out before they start to play? I had to play HoTS to know the existence of WoW-characters like and Illidan and Arthas.

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I see your point but then those players will never experience going up against, for example, Arthus or Illidan themselves. Instead, they would just see what they’ve missed out on and FOMO is, I think, a big reason people don’t start WoW. So my suggestion isn’t just based on knowing what happened, you could do that on YouTube. It’s about partially experiencing it. Also, my scenario included keeping the current system for people leveling alts, or they can also choose this version. I’m pretty sure a lot of max level players would go back over to experience the whole, albeit condensed, story again.

Appreciate your comments. I did mention that side quests can be re-enabled once the journey is complete, so that should combat missing those. Though I see your point about variety of leveling. My suggestion is simply to get the player from A-B as efficiently and cleanly as possible. In Chromie time, even by only selecting the campaign quests, I’m usually out of there by the end of the first zone, so it just doesn’t work and is a bit messy.

I think a lot would but as you point out, not all. I was watching one of these videos on YouTube “First time playing WoW”. The guy was questing and Thrall popped up to give him a quest. I was like, cool, Thrall. The guy didn’t have any clue about the importance of the character. Is that a big deal, I don’t know, just feels a shame for people to miss out on that. If they played the game with my suggestions or something more improved, they wouldn’t miss out and so when they come across a main character in the current expansion, they aren’t left wondering who that person is.

To take some ideas from you and from others in the thread, what could imo help:

Make an entirely new Island… Just copy paste one of the existing ones, and it doesn’t have to be something reachable for others…
Make a handfull of zones.

The idea here could be that each zone is just a compact storyline of previous expansions.

So starting zone would lead you to a cave fighting a big lava dude (Ragnaros), and there it can be just like the starter island today… Just a bunch of NPCs and the guy dies…

As you travel through the zone you are also introduced to the whole alliance vs. Horde from the POV of the faction you are in. So for horde players you would meet the leaders of the different races in your faction and they will explain why they chose the horde while also through quests telling you their heritage story. So Sylvanas would tell you how they became to be the “forsaken” etc.

And as you go from zone to zone, it is essentially “just” a condensed storyline telling you and showing you the TLDR of each expansion… I think even though I know its a lot of work, would be very cool for new players. They would have an idea of the lore, the races, who the bad guys were and why, what happened to them etc.

I stopped in TBC and came back for Legion and for me there was a big learning curve in the sense of understanding why Azeroth was screwed up, how Pandaren joined, what was Draenor and what did we go there for… All these things… For me it was “easy” to lookup because I had nostalgia to the game, and was already somewhat imerged in the world… But I assume as a complete new comer, having no relations to the world, there are SO many questions and you barely get to understand any of it, because there is so many side quests of “Kill 5 pigs”, “Hand me my bag I lost in the pond”, “Go tell Frank who lives next door that I know he is actually a Zombie”

Maybe utopia, but I really wish they would spend time on it, as I assume many of us fell in love with the game, for the lore, for the story, for the immersiveness

From a lore perspective I do think Org and maybe Ironforge should have some way for players to see what happened in expansions. If they so wish to. Ironforge has a library, not sure what they’d put it in in Org or another Horde capital.

Actually, you can now. It just doesn’t indicate that anywhere. I recently helped a new player get to WoD and it was a little convoluted and the game sucks at explaining anything.

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It’s gone through various phases, one patch removed the necessity to go to BfA but for new players it’s easier to be where the other new players are. However it will become DF in TWW.

That will not stop people going off course, some will just go where they want to go and they do manage to level. Even when BFA was the first time player required track, every time they get sent to Org there are a million and one quests you can pick up directing you somewhere completely different. I had to redirect a poor fellow who ended up in Legion, confused about why he couldn’t progress with his BFA quests.

There are some silly things in game, like the trainers giving a quest for SFK when they stick players in the BfA timeline and can’t queue for that dungeon. Even as a veteran I don’t like the way we queue for dungeons. I would rather queue for all but we are limited to per expansion, unless we tick all the possible dungeons and forego the random dungeon xp.

I agree it’s confusing for new players to navigate and I’m not sure what they can do to make it more clear. I guess it helps that we have vets in newcomer chat.

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Yes it is awful. Absolutely terribly awful. I would never recommend a new player to WoW unless you planned on holding their hand the entire way.

For me though, being able to do DF off the bat is great. It doesn’t really have any prior connection required for the Champion. You can easily do the island then go to DF as an explorer and become the champ of dragons. Also I can play an evoker slowly and learn the damn thing.

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Wow does more handholding now than in the past though. When I started it was very much just off you go and nothing was explained.

However there are simply too many expansions now. You’re never going to be able to experience them like a player who did them when they were new, unless you do them as a Classic reboot :dracthyr_hehe_animated:

While it’s true that changing BFA to DF is better, it’s still far from great IMHO. In Exiles Reach You are a nameless recruit. In DF You are firends with the most important dragons right out of the bat. This isn’t immersive at all.

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You do realize that those two characters “climatic” end is in a Raid right? And no cinematic or NPCs can replace raiding (and wiping) back in the day until you eventually kill them and see the kill cinematic for the first time.

Also… OK… You make some new guy play through TBC. Who is Illidan? You realize that the story of TBC makes ZERO sense if you haven’t played WC3. Same for Arthas.

WoW story is just SO MASSIVE its not feasible to make someone go through it like that.

I mean, look at the reclamation of Guileas. Who is that woman? Where was she all this time? Bolvar had a daughter? WOOOT???

Or the new forsaken woman. Arthas sister? Where the heck did she come from? She got “undead by the light”? The heck is that?

WoW itself does a terrible job at story-telling. With zero backstories.

Just get new players to end-game level, and THEN if they want to re-experience past expansions then they can do so if they want to. Maybe an alt. Maybe by just doing all the quests with their main. Dunno.

So many options (read the bottom of this post for more of this).

Many people dont start wow because the leveling experience makes ZERO sense until you reach the current expansion. And at that point… your really lost. Who is Alecstraza? Who is Malygos and why is he dead?

Those things you give for granted. But even in DF devs “assumed” you knew about what happened in WotlK with Malygos. Also, who is Kalecgos? He appears in TBC last patch, but to know WHY he appears you have to read some comics…

That is THE problem here. You cant have both. Because alt leveling is all boiled down to: Do the least amount of stuff to get to max level as fast as possible. Spam dungeons, install adons to auto-accept quests so you waste no time reading them… ect…

That by its very nature is NOT what a “new player” experience should be.

Once you got the new player experience dealt with. What you can do is re-vamp Chromi Time to something end-game players might like. For example : reducing YOUR level to the intended level. To experience the expansions as they were. And maybe, do some old dungeons/raids with the intended level.

Or re-structuring the old wow story. Or using the old world to do events with out being worried how that would affect “new players”…

It opens up a MASSIVE avenue to do end-game activities. But as long as its where 100% of the people go to level, its blocked. Cant use it unless you implement some new tech to allow it.

And if old and new players (now max level) want to experience old content, they can. And blizzard can add extra fluff to that experience. Dunno. New Delves and whatnot.

The game never asks players HOW they like to play, or WHAT bits they might be most interested in.

Are you an explorer ? Do you like to excel at fast combat ? Is crafting and gathering ingredients your jam ? Do you prefer to play alone or in groups ?

Quests, support and content could be available and offered depending on your choices. (With the option to amend your choices at any time).

For new players, Uda had some good ideas: (not gonna quote it all)

GW2 saves the players story (which can be referred back to at any time) and offer 3 x options to allow variety and the player to connect with their character.

The Lore is complex and messy. That said, it might be nice for veteran players who like levelling to be able to access race or class focused quest lists, to learn more about trolls or paladins through history etc.

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The abrupt eviction from Chromie time is another thing players don’t like whether they are veterans or new players.

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Can you explain? So you make a new character. And it boosts you instantly to 60 and drops you in DF? Or how is that gonna work? No tutorial, no nothing?

Or do you still have to go through Exiles reach to lvl 10, then do 50 levels of “nonsense” until you are literally teleported with no explanation whatsoever to DF?

Cause that is what we got today.

You create a character, go to Exile’s Reach, level to 10, get sent to Org/SW, then get a quest to go to DF, level through from 10 to 60 then get a quest to go to TWW.