Inspiration Catalyst (Dragonflight Creation Catalyst) Not Available Week 1

Community General Discussion
81

There is no such thing as you cant play m+ because of tier.

Yes there are groups asking for it.
But many groups also operated fine without said requirements.

And 9/10 groups asking for tier were actually the higher pushing groups. Which are mostly based out of people who are raiding / collecting tier and are looking for every 0.1% improvement.

The average player doesnt make use of that minor increase a tier bonus might bring.
Since they wont play the class or rotation flawless for 35 minutes straight.

That is already a month faster than not getting tier at all because you only play m+.
Which was an issue years ago, which led to the removal of tier sets at some point (i believe) because of public outcry because:

Hurrdurr i cant raid but i want tier sets.

Guess what: you can get tier sets nowadays if you dont have time to raid.

Not sure how to respond to the fair bit, because the guys you are talking about spend an awful lot more time in the game for tier sets and m+ work than you are able to.

So is it fair to diminish more time spent by others to gain the same reward to also give to you without any proper effort put into it?

Since you can basically make any ilvl from m+ dungeons into tier.
You dont need a roster of people to play on set times to raid, you just hop into lfg and click apply to group.
Your tier creation doesnt require any effort from you other than going to the forge and making it.

Because the materials will be widespread, the charges charge even if you are unsubbed or arent even bothered with it.

But i guess thats the time we live in nowadays, everyone wants to be equal without doing the same amount of work or putting in the effort.

So answer that; is it fair you can get tier instantly or with less effort than the people spending time to organize raids / recruit people and run a raiding group/guild + find the time to actually play with each other on a regular basis?

82

Remind me,what was wrong with season 3?

83

Ohi… you can look up my armory if you want… are you really saying I’m not putting the effort just because I don’t do raids? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
I’m not the One dung for the weekly kind of guy! My game is M+ and I don’t want to be blocked by stupid delays.
What? You’re really think I’m going to quit the game once I got 4 pieces? I have them since S3 and I’m still playing, still pushing.

Do I want them sooner? Hell yeah, so I can do the content I want to do: high keys.
S3 Merenwen-Nordrassil
S2 Ewiley-Nordrassil (and I struggled to be invited because I didn’t have any domination gear and not a meta class)

84

And still you dont need tier for that. Do they help? Yes. Are they mandatory? No

There is a big difference in what you want and actually need. And the last x many years raiders always had the edge. Or atleast when we are talking when m+ opened before that it was pvp or raiding as endgame activity and nothing else really.

Higher ilvl rewards, better trinkets or weapons.
And to me that still is fair, raiding requires more effort than running a 5 man dungeon which you can spam and which requires way less organisation.

So if you feel you need that kind of gear you should start considering raiding.
But down the line you truly dont need it.

Yeah i checked your armory.

But the point i made earlier still stands:
Be happy they came up with the catalyst, because we never had such options in other years when we had tier.

I was truly convinced they wouldnt carry it forward because it was fitting to Zereth Mortis and their whole: ZM people are the creators and the catalyst did fit there and nowhere else.

But the catalyst is here to stay, and we will have access to tier even with just running M+ and we can make tier from any ilvl so even the m+2 players can be decked out in tier.

And to me, thats a huge bonus and i do agree there should be a delay because the other means of acquiring tier requires more effort and should be rewarded.
If i was raiding i would feel it like a slap in the face you can get tier the same day as the raid opens.

Because i cant see any other “option” for when it should open. If 6 weeks is too long.
3 weeks will also get nay-sayers and people complaining. And thats what i also lack in this whole thread; a good suggestion to another time it should open, nobody is really talking about it. (I saw someone say 3 weeks)

But even with a faster opening time i would see people complain to a similar note.

And still most raiders will find use for the catalyst because getting a full 4 set within those first 6 weeks on a whole raid crew is almost impossible.

85

Do high keys without tier sets.

THEN and only THEN you have the right to have a point.

Ah yeah… I 100% pug of my keys btw. You do the same then I will have a laugh.

86

Okay. Lets ignore 99% of the post.
And it has been done and can be done. If you require tier sets to run higher keys it sounds like a you problem.

And what is this new arbitrary nonsense everyone keeps using: you can only have an opinion if x or y applies.

But i wont entertain you with telling you my experience.

Please answer me this one:

Or this:

You can literally spam max ilvl rewards key from december 12th and have an higher ilvl than raiders in week 1. Minus the tier sets.

And no, you dont need tier for higher keys, been there / done that.
But you are basing your reply on the char i am posting on.

And i dont see the need to defend myself towards you what my experience is.

So yeah:
Reply with feedback:

  • what is a better opening time for the catalyst?
  • why do you feel you need to be rewarded for less effort and get rewards raiders put in more effort for to begin with?

All these people who want it all instantly without proper effort put in.

But done with replying to you, aswell as i was with Elahri at some point.

Only replying to parts that fit your story or rant, and not replying or taking in other comments about the topic.

88

I find that these ‘have tier set’ issues exist more when people are trying to jump straight into 15s without a recorded score for the dungeon at a lower level. Starting at 10s, then 12/13, then 15 gave randomers more confidence in key completion (irrespective of ilev) than straight into 15 without any previous data. It depends on the group leader and what they want, not a necessity.

Let’s see if I get an answer this time (albeit not from the OP): what timescale are you wanting for this to be implemented if Blizzard’s current plans aren’t good enough for you?

1 Like
89

Even then, i did find / pug with groups when these whole:
Tier sets or no invite groups came to be.

9/10 groups:
Leader himself had no tier
Other players in the group with tier didnt use it to it full extent at all. (Logs / details check on tier proccs / use of abilities)
I had untimed keys with said groups even tho “all” had tier.
And when pugging keys with none tier players we timed the same key / key level.

People put way too much emphasis on tier bonuses and their effectiveness in M+.
Its too small of a % to actually make a major difference in key completion or timing it.

Tier wont magically time a key or make a +2 a +3. The effects are simply to small.

If you are over like 2 second of a 38 minute run, there are so many factors that could have been the reason for not timing it.
Missed interrupts / wrong decision in route / badly used timewarp.

Etc etc

90

Given none of them answers this one, nor seems there to be a “realisitic” other release timeframe in the other post concerning the same topic i dont think there is an answer.

Other timeframes debated in the other thread:

  • 3 weeks is still too long since it has to charge
  • opening december 12th would work for some. But might set of raiders in the process.

This whole debate cant be solved and no other timeframe will make everyone happy.

Ah well, as communicated before i am just happy they continue the catalyst and it doesnt disappear into history like: remember when we could craft tier from almost any item?

91

This is an extreme reaction to having to wait 1 week, for a single set piece.

1 Like
92

Ye 6weeks after mythic release is idiotic
because i want to play m+ since day 1 of season not 6weeks later
I don’t mind getting my full set in 6weeks
but being able to start collecting after 6 weeks is bad

93

Are they crying in wotlk also about not getting a full tier set first week or is that a mythic+ go go rush esport thing?

94

Hmm, so apparently you are the only player i came across who isnt able to enter a m+ dungeon if they dont have tier sets equipped.

Ah well, there is a first for everything.

95

Man, you don’t know what you’re saying.
At the start of Season 3 I did ALL raids and ALL M+, every week I had FULL vault items but still no tier set drop from raid or vault.
After 3 unlucky weeks with no tier piece I was starting to fall behind and people didn’t invite me in high keys or content anymore because I was unlucky.

I ended up taking a 2 month break and waited for catalyst, got instant 4 tier pieces and enjoyed the content.

So NO, implementing the same crap as in S3 doesn’t benefit ANYONE.

96

Shadowlands and especially season 3/4 has failed to retain the raiding scene feel free to look at current parse numbers and compare them to m+ numbers or tbc parses, its not an suprise that blizzard almost feels forced to keep the catalyst locked to incentivize those m+/pvp gamers to get into the most unplayed feature while that same feature being the responsible taking up most off the budget an patch has which is the raid

Before people get mad and say oh its just an bad luck protection system why advocate for something that the catalyst isnt meant to be? well it appears people are incapable off viewing the not so far past and look at what happend in season 3 and how succesfull that tier was. Spoiler alert it was one of the worst raiding tiers which coul’dve been fixed easily had the raid not been tuned around double lego and 4 set or perhaps allow access to the catalyst at release to prevent guilds pointless heroic farm trying to get their 20/20 raiders into 4 set which sadly took away time from actual mythic progression, there are plenty people still mad salty about season 3 being cut short and how they didnt get to progress the raid at the pace they enjoy but whatever blizzard will just ignore feedback like they’ve done in the past and m+/pvp gamers will be put off farming raids when their loot is now in the hands off others in form off group loot

Massive L on blizzard side

97

I did it a similar way. Got my KSM, upgraded my gear and called it a day.

The majority of my completed keys were +2s for valor.

98

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