Normal raids are extremely easy to do especially in 10 man, there is no real excuse to not do them even as an extreme casual. Lfr doesn’t really show anything from the raid, beside boss mechanics being inexistant and bosses just being punching balls
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I’m going to use an example of someone I play with, they were healthy when original MoP was out, but as they’ve gotten older their health seriously declined and now they have extremely limited finger/hand movement, and slower reaction times in general. But they enjoy LFR, because they’re getting to play the more ‘exciting’ parts of the game, without feeling like a hinderance. If they joined a H+ dungeon, the other party members would more than likely get frustrated with their slow reactions, low input, and just generally feel held back. But in a 25 man lfr group? They barely matter, they’re doing the best they can and no one even knows they’re there, let alone how ‘bad’ they might be performing. But they still deserve to play MoP and relive the nostalgia they had from when they were both healthier and younger.
This isn’t just ‘I don’t like people having easier options >:C’ it’s ‘This is a tool that benefits everyone who can use it, from disabled people who don’t want to hold others back, to hardcore casuals’. When I used to raid, I never did LFR because I knew I could gear my alts up with my guild. Now that I don’t raid, I enjoy LFR as a casual way to still experience the game. It’s accessibility to people who actually benefit, and the people who don’t like LFR won’t suffer because they won’t use the tool anyway.
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You’re the first poster in this thread that mentioned prestige, good job putting up those strawmen to knock them down 
There’s optional and there’s “optional”, epics for zero engagement is not optional to a lot of people that care for character progression and getting more powerful is a core feature in an (mmo)rpg.
For folks that have friends that are legitimately impaired to the point of LFR being the proper challenge for them
But in a 25 man lfr group? They barely matter, they’re doing the best they can and no one even knows they’re there, let alone how ‘bad’ they might be performing.
…perfect description of LFR by a proponent btw
You can’t get 2 more friends together and help them through a Celestial 5man? I assure you 4 regular players and an impaired one can definitely complete them without much trouble.
Same for a normal 10man.
Unless they are impaired, super busy with their stock options, supermodel wife and 3 kids, suffer social anxiety and can only sit down for 5 minutes at a time, then I guess we’re out of luck, hit the wombo combo of LFR audience.
Well funnily, it’s me, them and another disabled person, but saying that makes it sound fake lol. But regardless, it’s taking an option they’re comfortable and familiar, and especially have more fun in and being forced into a game mode they feel anxious and worried in, because they worry so much about holding the rest of the group back, or no lfr tier pieces at all. They even completely quit for a while because of their condition and toxicity, leading to even more worry. If you personally were too enticed by LFR to get some shiny purples instead of just doing normal+ with your guild or doing Celestials, that honestly sounds like more of a problem with you specifically, many people don’t touch LFR at all simply because they don’t like it. And many others DO use it, because of whatever reason, but amazingly they also don’t demand it be taken away from others because it’s just TOO easy for other people (Who it may really not be as easy as it is for you, you never truly know someone’s circumstance.)
At the end of the day, LFR and Celestials should be an option. What is so wrong with full accessibility to all, other than not being able to control your own desire for some shiny new loot that will instantly be replaced in higher tier content?
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I’m perfectly fine keeping myself out of it but LFR’s effect on the game is not a matter of personal anecdotes.
A significant portion of the playerbase will be peer pressured or simply eat the sticking to get to the carrot making it so players that do have an interest in organized group content get bored by week 3 instead of week 6, that ripples out to guilds (casual guilds more so than hardcores) and pugs, LFR is a snowball effect and it’s problem is not just the low engagement environment it’s mostly the re-use of the raiding environment.
I wouldn’t mind separate bite sized raid encounters with an easier difficulty (more Onyxias, Sartharions, Malygos, Gruuls etc) my objection is to re-using raids nerfed to the point where they are no longer organized group play and incentivizing players to burn themselves out of them all the sooner.
If you don’t care about the community aspects of the game, if you’re a solo player that would only ever run LFR as your “raid content” you don’t give a sh.
I think Blizzard has run the numbers and realized that N > N.
People with social ties with guilds + friends and steady groups staying longer in the game because the content didn’t get run to death in 3 weeks in 3 difficulties (with one of them having no lockout) is larger than the people with none of the above living in their solo bubble.
Thank you Blizzard, time better spend elsewhere
I’m sorry for your friend, but just because he can reach me his strong han and pull me upp, maybe its time for your being his friend building new fun together in this new dungeon system they purposing instead of 24 other ppl having to carry him trough what and diminish their experiences for it.
I’m not even sure what you trying to saw big dawg
Awesome, there goes my chance to have some raid gear without having to rage quit because of things I feel unfair. Thanks Blizz… The reason why I loved Raid Finder is because if I don’t get anything from the personal loot system then it’s just a poor RNG, and I can be in peace with that. But yeah, take that away. slow clap 
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i mean… why not include both ???
what would happen next if you guys continued with these rereleases ? no garrisons in WOD classic ? no artefact weapons in legion classic ? like what’s the limit here blizz ?
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As expected there are people who like this change and people who dont, but damn!
You’ve just burned a big part of your casual community…
It’s not the first time, and I’m sure it won’t be the last time.
Big L to Blizzard.
Out of all the expansions, MoP really needed LFR because of how the game was designed, and your new Celestrial dungeons does not seem to solve that discrepancy.
I’m curious about “Legendary quest progress, with quest additions made to preserve the lore, should players choose to use Celestial Dungeons rather than Raids to progress the legendary quest chain.” and how it really feels." but progressing the chain is only a tiny part of the game.
Why not story mode raids at this point? Unless you’ve really iterated on these H+ dungeons, it’s doing the same content over and over again while the raids are just sitting there, out of reach.
Gatekeeping content for the elite, that’s the Blizzard way, who cares about the casual.
Please at least say the new dungeons are more fun to play than the horrible Cata versions?
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dumbest decision ever! you guys are so incompetent its ridicilous! NOBODY liked the mandatory dungeon grind during dragonsoul to gear their characters to get ready for the raid! We dont like to do the same dungeons over and over again without any other form of content to get LFR gear! People in my guild where. Everyone hated doing the same dungeons every time a new raid tier came out in cata classic and we had to run the same dungeons again that we did the entire expansion since we started freakin lvling! Upping the HP of the mobs and bosses of a dungeon is not NEW CONTENT! ITS MINDNUMBING BORING! The only reason we did it was because it was mandatory! people where lvling alts in my guild to do lfr and when we got the news that lfr wasnt happing in dragonsoul nobody touched their alt! everyone raidlogged! On top of that people dont have the same time as back in the day, we want to be able to que up and do lfr, see the raid, do lfr on some alts and have fun! But you complete incompentent scrubs have to take away fun and force us in to something we do not enjoy! Dindt you see you numbers dwindle down during cata classic when no lfr was announced? Our server was high populated untill you decided to scrap lfr. Seriously stop bieng so freakin stupid! you give people 0 reason to play an alt or for the casual player base to enjoy classic mop or cata. Dumbest developers ever!
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as a SWEATLORD HEROIC RAIDER who clears content on Beta/PTR and cleared it in 2012-2013 CE/AOTC/ETC-----> I AGREE. REMOVAL OF CONTENT IS AWFUL. Dungeons being tampered with is such a waste of dev resources. Put the currency in LFR boss drops and from Challenge Mode completions (even if you miss the bronze timer). This is a damn atrocity to remove LFR. I wanted to run alts through this in the middle of the night or at random times, I wanted to que them and do content on the alt or farm. I do not want to spam dungeons with no downtime between queues unless I stop the queue. I won’t get ANYTHING out of a dungeon that I couldn’t get out of a target dummy. There is value in being about to see a ROOM inside a raid, see the boss and the combatants (even if differences between normal and heroic) and practice your rotation, positioning, movement, class utility. This is the most heinous and lazy thing blizzard has done with classic. It’s cowardice to REMOVE content just because people didn’t like it existing. Put out LFR AND this dungeon crap and see how many “MODDED” dungeons I ever run. I wanted untouched MoP heroics and CMs, and I wanted functional LFRs filled with players. If I’m geared or skilled at a spec…I carry and it’s fun alone or with friends. If I’m trying to learn a spec without dragging my group down or becoming a mechanic job do-er on norm/heroic than I am not even learning my spec anyway. Thank you for your post. I mourn this loss on behalf of all ranges of player types and raid experience.
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not sure why it posted from an alt, but whatever, I rerolled on a fresh account for MoP Classic and am in the middle of making 10 alts to support three strong mains. I’ll be clearing heroics in the first week or two. Already 6/6 HC MSV 25 and 10 on Beta. I have 45 hours of beta experience [for fun] killing bosses on heroic in MSV. I am just saying this to explain that as a 2012 Cutting Edge Raid Leader/ GM / Tank and DPS / Multi GOLD CM clears on 2+ monks and 5 other classes—> I have credentials to be presenting a high-end raider perspective. I’m lamenting this removal of content and I despise these modified heroic dungeons because they are garbage and horrendous without a premade.
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MoP classic was my choice to continue playing wow, now i think im gonna pass because of this. Retail gameplay just wont click for me. and future housing is not for me. guess time put game to rest.
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I would love if “The WoW Classic Team” would answer this simple question. Is LFR working, or is it broken?
I’m perfectly fine with H+ dungeons being part of the game, I’m perfectly fine with options.
As a casual player, options is the best thing there is!
Pugs aren’t really options, because either you risk being mistreated or kicked, or you still have to be a meta-build and parse!
This “community” you talk so much about, it’s a toxic one with limited space for casual play.
With LFR I would have queued for raids with my few guildies, we would have had fun, we would actually have had a chance to try out the raid on an easier difficulty, without being deeply analyzed before getting an invitation.
Besides raiding guilds, I seriously fail to see this socializing, this fancy community you dream so much about.
There’s a big casual community of players who never experience the raids because entry is impossible for multiple reasons.
H+ will thankfully allow me to progress the legendary quest, and if I’ve understood it correctly, I can actually complete it without setting foot in a raid.
Without LFR I will NOT be raiding in MoP, just like I didn’t raid in Wrath… TBC is the last expansion I got to experience raiding. Guilds fell apart, people weren’t parsing good enough. Focus was on speed running instead of actually completing the raid…
You even see the same in regular heroic dungeons, people are not playing to have fun, you have to be fast and focused, and if you aren’t playing a meta build, then you’re doing it wrong. I don’t know if these people find that fun, I don’t!
Blizzard! Or rather “The WoW Classic Team” you’re fixated on the sweats and gatekeeping casual players.
For all I care, open LFR a month after each raid opens. This would still incentive guildies to stay active, as LFR wouldn’t be a direct replacement to raiding as you’d always be behind.
What it will allow, is for the casuals / smaller cross-realm players to queue together and experience the content otherwise gatekept from them.
This simply shows how seriously one-sided “The WoW Classic Team” is.
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An absolutely terrible decision. I’ve voted with my wallet and cancelled my sub. No LFR means no sub. You never listened to player feedback, you completely ignored it.
You just keep on making bad decision after bad decision. What a shame. I was so hyped for MOP classic and now you’ve just ruined it for me and many others. Shame on you
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Was considering playing MoP Classic. But without LFR, Getting any meaningful progress towards being accepted into higher difficulties won’t be possible without LFR, as that’s how i was able to get my cape back in the day, as without it i wouldn’t be invited for higher things. There will be so much gatekeeping. So no. No MoP Classic for me.
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Like recreating the Cata prepatch event?
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Well…they at least didn’t cut the Theramore scenario this time so…
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