[Interest Check] Primalist RP? 🌩

Argent Dawn
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The Primalists (arguably) belong to some of the better written and understandable antagonists we have faced in WoW. Their motivations are clear, if maybe a bit extreme. This opens up the possibility that many characters in-game might be sympathetic towards their cause, or at least where it is coming from.

With antagonist RP seeing somewhat of a surge recently (we have Scourge RP, Legion RP, Void cultist RP), I was interested to see if people would like there to be some Primalist RP as well. There is still one Primal Incarnate kicking about, so while their forces are scattered, the plan is still in motion, which means some loyalists to Iridikron and his cause certainly have to remain. And even when he is potentially defeated, Vyranoth and some of her loyalists have joined the Dragon Aspects in a reconciliation of sorts.

So my question would be; would any of you be interested in straight up Primalist, or at least Primalist-esque RP? Meaning, in the more extreme case, a Twilight’s Hammer-style cult bent on purging titan influence off this world and freeing the Elements from their prisons in the Elemental Planes, and in a more mild case, a path alternative to the Earthen Ring, that seeks to mend the world’s problems not with balance, but with freedom?

Aside from only elementalists and Shaman, perhaps this guild could be a place for those who don’t fit in with society. Hunters, survivalists, primals (troll/orc), those that thrive in the wilderness, free from the shackles of order.

Guild storylines could be focused on unleashing the elements on certain lands, hunting down dark shaman and other forces enslaving the Elements, tracking down Titan artifacts and destroying them, gaining more favor with and power through the elements. Given the amount of antagonist guilds on the server, it opens up the possibility of inter-guild RP between 2 antagonist forces! It might help us avoid the problem of “heroic crusader hell bent on annihilating the evil PCs”, in case of interaction with the wider RP community.

I welcome more ideas! If you’re interested, we can get in contact and discuss further! :fire: :snowflake: :volcano: :tornado:

EDIT:
After a lengthy discussion, a discord server was made for those interested in pursuing this project further! Feel free to join!

https://discord.gg/yRTqqH6t
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I am sorry but what? How are they one of the better written Villians when they just suddenly appeared without any trace of them ever existing, but the strength to threaten the aspects?

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Immediate betrayal of their Titanic loyalty by attacking the Prime Designate Odyn on his territory is indeed a reconciliation… especially with how little did the Aspects and even the Keeper Tyr care about the ordeal.

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… Lore discussion aside, I’ve got the perfect character for this kind of guild, so I’d be interested if something like this would take off :eyes:

Even without being tied to Primalists, I’m sure you could do something that’s more anti-Titan sentiments than Primalists aligned.

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Primalists were a cool group of villains and I liked how they can vary in strengths like a buffed frost mage, crazy powerful shamans and warriors harnessing things like earth and magma powers. The flexibility in roleplaying a primalists is almost limitless.

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Tactical flexibility makes for a good set of antagonists, but not types to RP. As it is, the only possible routes for a surviving Primalist are either trying to earn their place as a normal shaman, hiding under Vyranoth’s patronage and doing… whatever her followers do these days, or going full Twilight’s Hammer in dark shamanism and aspirations for elemental ascendance.

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As opposed to… who else? You’ve listed three completely different pathways for a Primalist character to take, and omitted that Iridikron is still out there working on his plan. What makes Primalist remnants any less flexible than Scourge characters, Legion remnants characters, Void/Twilight’s Hammer characters?

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The problem with Primalists is that, while you could certainly RP them, they are a narrative dead end. Yes, Iridikron is out there, but I seriously doubt that Primalists as an organization will be portrayed again. They seem to be very much a Dragonflight-only faction that has only ever been a way for Dragonflight devs to put some goons into the zones for us to fight (as shown by utter lack of worldbuilding relegated to them in what was supposed to be their expansion). Even IF they are (and that is a big if, we are talking about a faction created by people who no longer work at Blizzard that most fans don´t care about), it´s going to take over two years for the expansion that might have them to arrive.

And while being a narrative dead end is definitely not something that should prevent someone from RPing such things, there´s a difference between beloved narrative dead ends and the ones that community hates or is indifferent to.

We are unlikely to ever get another faction war, if anything, merging of factions looks far more likely in current WoW environment, but people still RP-PvP because many love that aspect of Warcraft.
Scarlets have been destroyed multiple times with uncertainty whether they even exist (until DF), but that didn´t stop people from RPing them because people love their vibe.

But Primalists just don´t have that fanbase. And that´s a massive problem especially when it comes to antagonist guilds because you can´t rely on other people to provide RP for you. Every hostile guild is fighting an uphill battle of providing RP to its players in a setting where, outside of doing aggro sounds, they can´t RP with anyone else. Without a cool theme, you´re going to be extremely unlikely to succeed and Primalists just aren´t that cool theme for majority of playerbase.

And, this also translates to your enemies. The heroes may not be interested in fighting Primalists because the players behind the screen don´t care about their priests and paladins of the Light throwing hands with someone who is all about Titans and elements. Similarly, the villains might not care either.

As a Primalist, you might easily end up in a situation where nobody wants to join you and nobody wants to fight you while the whole setting is having a nice Void time, forcing you to create 100% of your guild´s content with no hooks provided by the lore.

If you want to create the guild, absolutely go for it. Just keep these things in mind because you´re going to be taking on a burden that I don´t think even many of the most experienced GMs would be willing to bear.

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I do not think we have seen the end of them just yet, we just do not know what will be their fate - and Midnight and the Last Titan might have some very relevant things coming their way.

I think that the guild concept can be done in two different ways.

  1. Antagonists, but not outright villains.
    Primalists that have rejected Iridikron’s ways for one reason or another, or have only done so on a surface level upon being left to their own devices and him being nowhere to be seen. As such, this guild would provide a narrative to these adjusting villains trying to get by with their ideals as the world focuses elsewhere, perhaps trying new tactics to achieve their goals of titanic destruction with methods that do not involve outright open violence all the time. Outsiders of society, with breathing room for more villainous or anti-hero-esque characters, and not necessarily being kill on sight by everyone except dracthyr that might recognise them, which might lead to some cool rivalries and interactions.

  2. Villains.
    Iridikron is gone, and his followers have cryptic orders directly (allegedly) from him to continue onward, and so, they do. They are to cause havoc in every corner of Azeroth, testing new methods to defeat the titanforged when the opportunity arises, and incidentally or accidentally creating local threats that others have to deal with.

In either case, if you focus it on titanic thematics, and don’t fool yourself that the void won’t play a part with whatever’s in store for Iridikron’s plotline, you might have quite a lot to actually go off of, especially when Midnight and the Last Titan drops - or perhaps as early as the last patches of The War Within.

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April Fools was almost a month ago.

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I don’t know why this questioning or dismissal keeps happening to interest check and guild threads. I think the concept seems cool to expand upon. After all, we’re the ones writing the RP, the lore doesn’t write the RP for us. Just try it and see where it takes you.

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Frankly, because it´s good when people are told “Be careful, your idea may not work as well as you think”. It can give you a reality check so you can adjust your concept in a way that will give you the desired result (a guild that actually has people in it) or to realize that it´s not going to work and save yourself the hassle.
Or you decide that it´s worth doing despite the hurdles and try it anyway, which is absolutely OK to do too. But, at least you´re approaching it with clear head instead of one that´s high in the clouds (such as, in this example, where the vibe I´m getting is that OP may have been unaware that Primalists are viewed much more negatively by other RPers than they view them).

Yes, responding to interest checks only with stuff such as:

may give one the warm fuzzy feeling in the stomach, but is it actually going to help them? For example, are you going to join their guild if it´s created? Not as an officer, but simply as a member?

It may sound harsh, but getting “Awesome! Go for it!” as a response to an interest check is absolutely worthless. Guilds don´t survive on positive vibes sent through the forums.

It does however offer great opportunities and ways for development of RP. Just look at night elf community once Bel´Ameth was released, or goblins now with Undermine. The interest in different ways of RP tends to ride on what´s currently happening in the lore. Which in turn can coincide with decreased interest in other aspects of RP because that RPer that´s going to go full elf in Midnight isn´t going to be able to go full Primalist.

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And I don’t understand why this “positive happy vibes only” attitude seems more and more widespread on the forums. Isn’t the purpuse of these threads to gather feedback and potential criticism so that whoever is thinking about doing the concept ends up more informed about what they plan to do and they can weigh the pros and cons behind it?

I guess if you already have your mind all set and just seek reinforcement then that’s fair, but it’s a silly mentality to have on a discussion forum.

Anyway I’ll personally echo the statements made above, the primalists by all accounts seem to be a one and done faction with almost zero worthwhile lore behind them, I honestly still don’t get where they came from and what their deal was so I don’t really see the potential in exploring the concept in RP unless you’ll dive deep into headcanon territory and invent your own reasonings behind those things.

A better alternative would be to just cook up your own group that is just inspired by what the Primalists did (or tried to do I guess) and to incorporate other elements to avoid the pitfalls laid out by Syelia above. Honestly in my opinion you don’t really gain a whole lot by sticking the primalist label on yourself and it’ll just end up pretty limiting.

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I don’t want to derail the thread, but is it so wrong to not think every guild has to be perfectly planned and thought out before it’s even breathed into life? It’s not dangerous to take a leap. Might make me a hippie, I guess. :face_with_peeking_eye:

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Why do you feel the need to misrepresent the posts here as if only your extremes exist? The people are giving feedback on how a Primalist concept might not work out and it’d be better to use that theme and expand on it. Your shadowboxing for the sake of toxic positivity looks weird at this point.

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If this was a thread only about whether folks would be interested or not in such a concept I would be inclined to agree, but as the OP said, he welcomes new ideas, and folks simply gave some of their own - be it new spins on the whole thing, or just recommendations that might work better than using the Primalist name tag for such a concept.

As someone who can see the concept functioning as a guild quite well, I don’t think there’s any harm being done, personally.

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In the context of Interest Check thread where the person asks about ideas and discussion?
Yes.

Interest check is about gauging whether something will find support among the community, in the sense of actually gaining willing players who would be interested in taking part in the pursuit of the specific RP. Negative answers are IMO part of that too, you can gain the idea about problems you might face.

And, as someone who got plenty likes and “go for it” responses the last time I tried to make a guild, I can safely say: They are utterly meaningless.
Especially when it comes to an extremely difficult concept (a hostile guild). It´s pretty much the Hardcore GM experience.

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Not as a participant personally, but I’d love to see twisted elemental adherents as an antagonistic presence on AD. It’s a breath of fresh air - so to speak.

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As the king of dark shaman rp i feel that primalists as a faction is just twilight hammer but watered down with little to no lore to them. I don’t find them interesting as i can litterally just do their rp 1 to 1 as twilight hammer instead but have more to look forward to in terms of theme exploring. So i merely ask the question of, why do primalists when you can litterally do the much more flavourfull and lore rich twilight hammer

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The Primalists as a faction have never quite resonated with me. I’m sure there’s a way to make them work, but I find their lore lacking in depth—especially when it comes to their humanoid followers. In many cases, their characters felt somewhat random or underdeveloped, with missed potential—much like Kurog Grimtotem. I do believe the Worldsoul Saga presents a good opportunity for characters who oppose the Titans to rise.

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