aye, complete them. THEN form a raid and mow down the alliance for retribution for AOO.
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Invasions perfect place to allow world pvp without hindering quest completion for people who in rush with a little bit tweaking.
P.S.
āWet Work: Aromās Standā will made even calmest people insane with rage and hatred for allies and enemies when WM is on.
P.S.S
I am not got to point how much all who oppose idea contradict each other. And i honestly donāt believe that Horde have more characters with WM on than Alliance(without counting twinks on same account) because quest for killing enemy players too lucrative. Seen 20-30 alliance characters on my shard at same local quest when zone shows only 5-10 horde players is ridiculous. Current local quest system forcing players to do quest in fixed locations allowing some smart pants to gather raid on low populated shard with mostly pve oriented people(who dont want to pvp, but wont shut down WM because even 10% too much difference in long run) and camp zone until they tired of killing. When someone join defense party and see enemy raid(expecting to see party) many just leave with some excuse or without it.
Yes it all just my personal experience and it donāt happen every day. But honestly. If you took system that works nicely in game without open world pvp - take it fully and allow auto-forming raid\party for such big activity. There is no point for this with WM off, but with WM on it actually will help lessen grieving created buy people who just want their 400+ item from weekly. Its hard to blame seeing this reward(i would do this too - compassion can burn when there is good enough reward to kill it).
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As it is now at assaults, raids usually form organically, in response to ganking by the other side. Thatās cool. Allowing quests in raid, could remove that organic ebb and flow conflict.
But prob the real issue isā¦ allowing assaults to be completed in raid would likely create additional lag, with numerous players in raids concentrated on fewer shards, possibly multiple raids per shard. Whereas the smaller parties are prob more distributed across more shards. Better for shards.
Thatās prob why aoo stopped being allowed in raid. Except with assault, the extra raid players would be focused in one location. Laaaag. Raids are too unbalancing for server resources in this situation. But a raid being formed without quests involved, should be less unbalancing, because less raids.
What we have now works pretty good, I often see multiple parties of both factions + solos. They can provide plenty conflict, but are not overly op. Sometimes a raid shows up, but one raid, and not all the time. Imagine multiple raids being around, mowing players down, and getting phased out and in to maintain server resources and player balance. I prefer the more natural way a retaliation raid forms now. After much ganking the Horde raid does eventually show up.
After quests, itās fun to try and create a raid, a title like āZone Tour of Dutyā works well. But it will likely be the only raid at that assault, and maybe a smaller one.
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Absolutely! Iām all for making our own battlegrounds out in the world but the two should never be married.
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Problem being you canāt complete the quests because thereās a whole raid against you. The experience I get on my realm is nobody is willing to make a raid because they want to complete the quests, so I look on LFG and join a raid but that puts me into a different shard and if I leave that raid I get put back into my original shard where Iām facing a raid group again.
Battlegrounds have objectives, invasions would act as those objectives. Currently, without them theyāre just unbalanced TDMās. It in no way would trivialise it.
I agree with you on that . Also You canāt do most group world quests while in wm on .because very few groups do them .most groups that are forming are on wm off.
Current system is designed to created point of potential PvP conflicts with WQs if you enable War Mode. Too bad if your local is full of PvE players. Use LFG to change that.
Allowing raids wonāt solve anything - still the same local full of PvE players with the same goals and interests, still will be crushed by enemies who are interested in PvP, nothing is changed.
Yeah, not many players understand that you can join the raid, clear location of enemies, then leave raid and do your WQ. Well, rush-rush-rush to do WQs - that is the difference between those who want actual WPvP and those who use all that as an excuse for doing PvE WQ only.
If you still look at assault WQ as the main goal - then this raid is similar to a pack of trash before the boss, or a boss mechanic that you need to do before youāre able to kill it, and game already provided you with tools you need to accomplish it.
The problem with all that āWQs in raidā is that instead of using the tools players are focused on āI want to do WQ, and if I canāt do them itās not WPvP, gimme raids so I can complete my WQ because thatās what I want to doā - simplified version of a few posts above.
One thing you donāt want to see - no matter if those players, who want WQs more than anything, would be in raid or not - their focus will still be on WQs, and not on fighting the enemy. Thatās why it will still be the same mess, if not worse - because enemies, who are focused on actual WPvP, would have a better means for coordination.
Call to Arms / AOO canāt be done in raids, same as assault WQs - so you and your enemies are all in the same boat. Sometimes enemies have more players focused on WPvP and not WQ, sometimes more on your side. Nevertheless - you have all the tools you need to change that, so if your focus is actual WPvP - use them. If you just want to do WQs - same - use them.
Ofc it would. Thatās the main reason you and some other players are advocating for that. You want to complete WQ as a part of the raid, with other players fighting the enemy while you hopefully could avoid dealing with enemies yourself.
That is by desing, and itās beautiful!
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Iām just going to have to respectfully disagree with the Op and you on this and call it a day. 
Iāll avoid log string of quotes. When there was daily quest system people cant really made other people day hard, because daily was available every day so i could miss 1 or 2 if i feel not wanting to fight for it. And now game is really on tight schedule. We need do some LQ then get ready for raid run some key hoping for proc, et cetra, et cetra. If you personally doenāt have\see problems in current situation it doesnāt mean it doesnāt exist or donāt need to be corrected one way or another. Quest for gear for alliance didnāt solve, but created more problems low pop shard. You never experienced rads camping on every shard single LQ? I had. I rarely see lfg from shards with pvp oriented peoples because its more like closed club right now. Joining pvp community? It can be solution but not for me, i enjoy occasional pvp but i donāt have so much time to regularly engage it(like many other people). So what choice i have?
P.S. and about call to arm i told 3 times already - abusing system, 2-4 creating lfg for quest an there you get 10-20 people decimating you. TEN TO TWENTY players! Intended and beautiful?
Yep, this is intended. Player choice, yours and allies, to whether you are gonna let them get away with it 
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Yes, intended and beautiful. No one is abusing that system, players create LFGs to invite other players for what they are doing. They are using in-game tools as intended - just like you invite your friends to do dungeons, etc.
Ten, twenty, it doesnāt matter - you can do the same and decimate them.
So, you are going into WPvP only to get a piece of gear and dealing with actual PvP is a problem because you donāt have time for it and just rush-rush-rush? If itās so, I hope now you see how absurd it is, almost as complaining about doing Arenas as a problem when you just want rewards from it.
Not only experienced it, but also done it myself.
Joining community will not force you to do anything. You can get help from players in it, just remember to return a favor.
Deal with WPvP situations, or switch your focus completely on PvE and rewards from it, WM off and daily rBGs for conquest rewards if you have time.
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Jeeshā¦
remember back in the good olā days of PvP servers where you didnāt have a choice but to get ganked while trying to complete quests or even just trying to get to your raid?
Back then, if you couldnāt get haunders you just logged off and went outside lol.
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Yeah, even remember flying back to Ironforge to get reinforcements for Southshore, hehe.
But even then, some peeps were still complaining how they stuck on PvP server because of the guild/friends/whatever. Some people just want to complain, even when they have a very easy option ON/OFF made for them I guess.
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I really want to find interview where developer told that phasing system will even a bit character population in active zones(but honestly canāt remember when it was said). But no matter. My point is - to allow us to have more useful tools without adding even more addons go our client.(and clearly i we get something good like now dead oq-wave it will be soon disabled). LFG system are good for the ones who actually have a time or really enjoy camp invasion points. Simple example, from today - Alliance gathered 2 parties and started farming in lq with heavy presence of friendly to them npc(good choice by the way). But there was many people a that time and they was repeatedly killed, they run away. waited 10 minutes and returned with more people. But Horde players mostly finished and moved on their way. In result they keep killing because if starting group really small and there isnāt some reward for doing it - people want help.
Ill skip most of your quotes because you just simply ignore theme and get to actual point. WM gives too big bonus for having it on. If they remove this bonus i actually will switch it off like many players. But 10%(even more for allies) is too much to ignore. But its harder to gather people without such motivation like 400+ gear from quest for 25 heads. So if such goodies exist give us more fluid party\raid system for invasions.
And yes i played on pvp server, so most people were actually fight when we we attacked, not run away/log out/to another server.
And i actually mostly enjoyed occasional pvp.
P.S.
Or actually if they remove this bonus for WN on? there stays only those who enjoy pvp, then actually people maybe stop running between shard.
LFG is a tool for players to do/accomplish together what they want to do/accomplish. Not just camping. If you donāt have time - use it, itāll help you save it.
With your own example - Alliance gain numbers and came back, and you, instead of doing the same - chose not to, and now telling this sad story instead of story about your glorious retaliation.
Your PvE reward and intensive to group up is - completion of WQs on assault instead of wasting time dieing. PvP rewards are conquest and fun. There is a LOT of players who understand that.
LFG is not something that require more time, as you try to paint it to be. If you die repeatedly and canāt finish assault - that is a waste of time. Creating LFG and getting more players in - will save you time.
Greed, greed is good!
But too much greed makes you blind. If you donāt want to deal with WPvP part, donāt want to use LFG to speed thing up - you will spend much more time and that 10% bonus is irrelevant. So just turn it off and do a few IEs more.
And itās 385 item, doesnāt work in raid - same as assault WQs.
And now itās clear, itās another thread about āThat bonus is shiny, I want it, but other players make it harder for me to get it, I donāt care that itās an incentive designed that way and it works, so if I donāt want to deal with WPvP and use tools provided by the game - nobody else should have that bonus tooā.
But I wonder why players who want only PvE reward talk about PvP incentives, probably because they want more of other players to solve PvP around them while they do their PvE stuff. This is ridiculous.
Hmmā¦ I see. Good luck receiving your PvE wishes in PvP mode.
I guess with ārush-rush-rush for more-more-moreā in mind there is nothing else left to do but to complain about the need to do PvP in WPvP.
In case you decide to actually do something about it - re-read this thread, there is a lot of useful info that will help you.
Iām out.
3 Likes
The conclusion slowly comes - Blizzard wants to get pve players into WM by giving the bonus, but it cannot create wpvp-ers out of them, their main and only goal remains WQ. Blizzard also fails to motivate pve players to use LFG tool. LFG tool seems to be something alien to them, for various reasons - they see it not effective enough (why I donāt know, because it is effective), they are reluctant to ask other people for help, they do not like the sharding system where they have to jump shards to find/avoid enemy groups. IMO itās a hopeless situation.
I see a problem of priorities. Somehow I get a feel that pve players look at WM and wpvp as a āvery minor activity with WQs to complete, while waiting for the raid to startā, thatās why they are irritated that they have to put more pvp effort or grouping effort to complete it.
Seems to be a bigger mess for them than with the former pvp realms. For me itās fine because I am a wpvp-er but Blizzard maybe has to reconsider torturing their favorite playerbase (pve-ers), if they treasure them so much.
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My dream is complete āsegregationā of pvp and pve. Give pvp gear, pvp vendors, why not resilience. Keep wm bonuses, but there should be no chance for high geared pve players to beat pvp geared ones. If they want to turn wm on, they have to be prepared for it and have pvp gear, otherwise be slaughtered. This might even teach them some pvp skills while they work for their gear in bgs (hopefully). WM should be a cruel reality, challenging stuff.
WQās in wm should give only pvp rewards. That way no one would feel forced - donāt want pvp rewards, donāt do it, nothing to lose.
Is it a bad suggestion? Why we have to have players who feel inconveniences, who are feeling forced, but believe that the bonus is too big to just let go?
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And you two actually saw both main points.
-WM mode shouldnāt give pve bonus.(funny - get to this conclusion while tried to explain another thing).
-LFG system need more advanced search mode. Because nearly all world activity is under āOtherā tag. It trow everything together - WM on, WM off, side activities, zone farm, PVP, all zones here. In rush hour i see wall of tags, and key words find nothing(not all the time).
-Invasion can have some form of zone raid for WM on.(not a point but a wish)
Try using keywords like ā25ā, ākillsā, āallianceā, ānazmirā (or current 10 kills zone), āinvasionā etc.
I have an issue with LFG tool where you canāt copy/paste your search word. Every time I open the menu I have to type it manually.
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Itās going to be long and detailed, so bare with meā¦ hehe
Tbh, for all that I blame design of systems that promote ārush-rush-rushā game-play. Imo, it makes players view other players just as pixels that make their rush-rush-rush faster, and nothing more. PvE players are affected by this more than PvP players. I agree, itās hopeless, unless Blizzard make big changes on how they view Adventure & RPG parts of the game and systems.
In addition to that AP comes from only two sources reliably - IE or WQs, and unlike in Legion, where any activity gave players relatively same amounts of AP. BUT, we are talking about Assaults here, and even if all WQs on an assault give AP that 10% bonus is less than one IE.
Some players just have expectations that rewards should be just given to them, and they have complete disregard what these rewards are given for if they donāt like/want the activity itself - just give me rewards and Iāll be on my way to do other stuff because Iām in a hurry. When that doesnāt happen - players start to talk how something is forced, when itās not.
For example, forced is when Blizzard makes you do dungeons to craft a bag or other non-gear items from professions. Non-forced - giving a small bonus for playerās own choice to have PvP in open world, bonus that can be easily compensated by few more IE in the same or less time than it takes to ātravel and die & waitā in War Mode.
Another example - I met Method and Fatboss players in War Mode doing AP WQs, they are always in groups, because it gives maximum efficiency. So when some PvE players view groups as a waste of time, when itās the only thing that can make getting that 10% bonus efficient, and something that any PvE player suppose to understand on a basic level - it looks like simple laziness.
The last time LFG gave me WMoff groups for open world content was in October, I think, for Arathi rares. Since then, it always make a good job of prioritizing groups with WM on when Iām searching in Custom/Other. So when I see how PvE players donāt want to spend time to find a group (as they do for M+ runs) and just want the game to solve that āPvP inconvenienceā for them - for me it looks like a failure of a playerā own choice, and not a failure of a game system.
From the start of BfA some PvE players who just want a reward and nothing else always talk about some kind of LFR-WarMode or remove bonus for everybody so it wonāt tempt them and they wonāt have to deal with consequences of turning WM on.
When on top of that, these players want to have conquest so they can get rewards from PvP and complain about the need to deal with PvP to get it - now that just completely silly.
I donāt think that Blizzard wants to get PvE players in WM, apart from them trying to bribe Alliance PvEers for faction balance. But even that looks like stops working, since we have AOO for a third week in a row and after quite a substantial time of this system active. I think they should go back to the original idea of getting in WM players who at least donāt mind dealing with PvP part.
It still wonāt solve the problem with greedy players who want every tiny bit of rewards and for free if they donāt like an activity. But trying to solve that problem, thatās created by these players for themselves in the first place, I think is hopeless.
Although I understand why, I donāt want this complete āsegregationā or gear with resilience or similar. PvP vendors - yeah!
I like that I can do any part of the game, progress with my character and that progress will help me in other parts of the game. It makes whole game experience much more cohesive than it was when resilience was introduced in TBC.
Currently we have different stats prio for optimal PvP and PvE, PvP talents and mechanics changes for some abilities - I think itās good enough to separate the two without making it like 2 games in one client sharing zones and textures.
Plus it never felt good to play for me when I got a powerful piece of gear and now I can deal with player human/tauren/whatever more easily, and not with NPC human/tauren/whatever. It is still a MMORPG, and not a lobby based action game, so this cohesiveness is important.
I just wish PvP had the same amount of options to get gear as PvE. PvP vendors - yeah!
I think itās already is, just look how many players want to avoid dealing with it, with all chaos, unpredictability and unfairness it brings.
I like that current ācruel reality, challenging stuffā are brought by other players and their choices/actions and not by gear and stats.
I was telling it from the start. But if you just remove bonus without other changes - current conquest system, one bar per week and daily lockouts on stuff (bounties, air drops) - wonāt be rewarding enough to be a full fledged PvP game mode. Itās still a MMORPG, any kind of progression is important.
I probably answered this in that big wall of text above, hehe.
Yeah, disabled copy/paste in search field is very stupid and makes using the tool needlessly harder for everybody.
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