Ion about Survival

[Aldru-argent-dawn (Aldru)]

Water is wet.

[Shihiroki-kirin-tor]

I was quite memeing here. I still don’t get why they would revert most of legion reworks, only leaving both surv and demon in this sad state.

[Arquaud-silvermoon]

This has been going on for so many years, and with every year that goes by, the legendary ranged survival gets more and more epic in your minds, even though it was basically a more mobile Marksman.

This continued and unwarranted bias against a melee hunter spec, even though the classic D&D archetype of the Ranger is frequently melee and the class fantasy is solid, keeps leading to little to no improvements to Survival’s gameplay and performance.

Can you PLEASE let us be?

[Aldru-argent-dawn (Aldru)]

DW I get the memeing, it’s still sad they rework a whole damn specc twice to then leave it in shatters when the community comes up with many great suggestions and ways to fix the issues.

@Arquaud-silvermoon

This has been going on for so many years, and with every year that goes by, the legendary ranged survival gets more and more epic in your minds, even though it was basically a more mobile Marksman.

Idk my guy, a DoT based specc vs a mostly pure ST specc was fairly different until they removed DoT snapshotting. The whole damn class was similar in playstyle for ages and so are literally every other pure DPS class so miss me and others with that “THEY ARE THE SAME!!!” talk.

@Arquaud-silvermoon

This continued and unwarranted bias against a melee hunter spec, even though the classic D&D archetype of the Ranger is frequently melee and the class fantasy is solid, keeps leading to little to no improvements to Survival’s gameplay and performance.

There’s a lot of bias as nobody wanted the specc rework into melee for a start, most suggestions for our at the time potential melee specc going into BM due to Rexxar (who up until Legion was a Beastmaster) or a fourth specc ala druids.
I’m a fan of melee surv, just had to respecc during progress as doing NYA with 1 ranged is abit of a yikes, but the MSV fantasy is literally BM but better in fantasy and gameplay.

@Arquaud-silvermoon

Can you PLEASE let us be?

No.

[Arquaud-silvermoon]

The whole damn class was similar in playstyle for ages and so are literally every other pure DPS class so miss me and others with that “THEY ARE THE SAME!!!” talk.

So is your argument that they were not the same, or that it’s ok that they were the same because all pure dps classes are? Those are very contradictory statements, not to mention that the idea that the specs of all pure dpsers are alike is just not true. Rogue, Warlock and Mage specs were very distinct from each other. And those that were too similar (Subtlety and Assasination) moved in different directions over time.

There’s a lot of bias as nobody wanted the specc rework into melee for a start, most suggestions for our at the time potential melee specc going into BM due to Rexxar (who up until Legion was a Beastmaster) or a fourth specc ala druids.

That’s understandable, if there was one spec i’d guess would fit a lot with melee it would be the beastmaster. Survival does also fit thematically though, as a rugged survivalist would also be likely to be hunting with a spear alongside their pet. A fourth spec would be a preferrable solution, if only to not have to put up with all of this.
The people who didn’t want a melee hunter were the people who had already picked hunter because they were drawn exclusively to the ranged fantasy. There were people not playing hunter who welcomed the change because it allowed them to play an interesting class in a way they feel more comfortable with.

No.

That’s just mean.

[Aldru-argent-dawn (Aldru)]

@Arquaud-silvermoon

So is your argument that they were not the same, or that it’s ok that they were the same because all pure dps classes are? Those are very contradictory statements, not to mention that the idea that the specs of all pure dpsers are alike is just not true. Rogue, Warlock and Mage specs were very distinct from each other. And those that were too similar (Subtlety and Assasination) moved in different directions over time.

My arguement is based on that is the reason we got for the unwanted change in the first place.
Also it was a generalising statement. We had a point and frankly still do in many ways have a situation of too much homogenisation in all the classes and speccs atm.
As for your statement on the other classes, Rogue had Assass and sub which was very similar just the niche being poison or bleeds in focus, Mage casting the same spell but different flavor and Warlock at least in MoP when it was good felt unique in all the speccs, later to be tossed in the garbage as our lord and saviour Ion Hazzikostas hated the uniqueness (:

Assass and Sub are still similar in gameplay gonna burst your bubble, so is mage. Can’t speak for lock as I don’t really talk to anyone who mains lock atm. Hell even BM and MM feel similar, difference being one specc is actually good and has some fluidity to it while the other feels like the biggest snoozefest known to man.

But hey each to their own opinion.

@Arquaud-silvermoon

That’s understandable, if there was one spec i’d guess would fit a lot with melee it would be the beastmaster. Survival does also fit thematically though, as a rugged survivalist would also be likely to be hunting with a spear alongside their pet. A fourth spec would be a preferrable solution, if only to not have to put up with all of this.
The people who didn’t want a melee hunter were the people who had already picked hunter because they were drawn exclusively to the ranged fantasy. There were people not playing hunter who welcomed the change because it allowed them to play an interesting class in a way they feel more comfortable with.

I picked hunter for the archetype of the archer fantasy, most people you hear that picked hunter outside that one did it for the pets or easy to learn gameplay.
I just chose to adapt to Melee SV bc SV is still my favorite specc, even if its not in a particular good spot half the time.
But hey ho, it might change, it might not. Maybe some day we have competent devs at the game again.

@Arquaud-silvermoon

That’s just mean.

I am a mean potato, at least sometimes.

[Arquaud-silvermoon]

Assass and Sub are still similar in gameplay gonna burst your bubble, so is mage. Can’t speak for lock as I don’t really talk to anyone who mains lock atm.

Assassination and Sub are not that similar. One uses poisons and bleeds, the other focuses on attacking from behind, using Shadow Dance to use stealthed abilities frequently, and deals shadow damage. Their abilities are not reskins of each other, they have functional differences that affect their rotations. They deal aoe in very different ways as well. They’re only too similar if you believe that having combo points makes them the same.

Same for mages. Fire uses crits to throw instant Pyroblasts, Frost loads up on icicles to release huge Glacial Spikes (or goes full Haste with a Thermal Void build to throw a ton of Ice Lance crits), Arcane spams Arcane Blast over and over. Again, the spells are distinct and not reskins. They’re the same only if “casting spells” makes them the same.

Warlocks are the most distinct of all three, with Demo generating as many Imps as possible to feed them to the Tyrant or make them Implode, Affliction having a million dots, and Destruction being a fire-themed blaster.

You can’t burst a bubble by being incorrect. Have you played any of these classes or does everything just look the same to you?

I picked hunter for the archetype of the archer fantasy, most people you hear that picked hunter outside that one did it for the pets or easy to learn gameplay.

That’s expected, since that’s all it was in the beginning. But I’m sure there’s more people like me who picked it for the melee survivalist fantasy.