I mean, it’s not as simple as he puts it, but there is certainly some truth to it. The difference between stats on gear between difficulties is a lot smaller than it used to be.
I don’t know if he is comparing LFR geared players (which is around ilvl 190 I believe) to mythic geared players, as I am not sure if he mentioned the specific types of gear he is comparing and the article doesn’t mention what is being compared either.
During early Castle Nathria runs we were around ilvl 190-195 in my guild and we did between 4k-4.5k dps on single target bosses like normal Hungering Destroyer and Sludgefist. I’ve not done much LFR but I did some runs on alts and I remember a particularly painful wing (which also included Sludgefist) with the majority of people doing between 1.5k and 2k. Those numbers are low even for the minimum LFR ilvl of 170.
Simming myself and replacing all my items with their LFR ilvl equivalent I go from about 6150 dps to 4600, just over 25% less. Which to me seems fine for a ~40 ilvl difference.
Of course someone in ilvl 226 is going to do damage than someone in ilvl 190, but I believe the difference is smaller than in previous expansions, LFR and mythic is comparing two extremes though (and again I am not sure what ilvl differences he is talking about). The dps difference between a heroic geared player and a mythic geared player is (or should) be a lot smaller than that for example.
Genuinely curious what you mean by this. I have higher ilvl than him, have CE and I’ve barely touched m+ .
Not always. If we look at Warcraft logs a difference of 26 ilevels between top logging balance druids in nath renders a DPS difference of something between 60-70%. Both top logging, so skill isn’t a significant factor.
The disparity is about three times what Ion claims it is, and in PvP it’s bigger as survivability and versa bonus get involved
Some specs do scale roughly 1% per ilevel but many scale anywhere from 2-4% ilevel per ilevel assuming they’re prioing the right stats. What Ion said is outright false.
The joke is he even said he “didn’t have the data on it” but he made the comment anyway. Utterly moronic. Why on earth would you handwave away the issue with such a non argument when you admit you haven’t even seen if it’s an issue.
And re PvP…like, have the pve community even been going on this? I don’t recall 200 people whining 226 did more DPS by far? Not as far as I have seen.
It’s the PvP community that brought it up because 200 players directly fight 226 players and get barred from progress by them.
For Ion to not even recognise which section of the community brought this up as well as non answering it is beyond belief. “He’s talking about pve” but why? Is it pvers bringing it up? No
Dude needs to actually step inside PvP on a 200 with none of his buddies and see if he sticks by his “just skill” statement then.
You have people whom previously had 2.4 rating in the 1.4 bracket due to either tanking their own rating on purpose to boost, or because they lost it after getting boosted and they couldn’t beat other 2.4 on their own.
So they play against the 1.4 guys in 207 gear.
Ion has us believe that the “skill difference” here is about 20%, so the 1.4 guy “needs only be” 20% better than the guy in 226 gear to win
Reality tells you that this guy has close to 40% more health than you, has way more output and gets more from their versa bonus than you.
At current, in such a matchup, there are largely two situations that result in the 1.4 winning:
A) they are more skilled than the 2.4 players on average because they can beat this 226 guy with a level disadvantage.
B) the 226 player plays like a complete moron and lacks any basic PvP nuance.
The first is ridiculous, because it is essentially making it the case that 1.4 players need to be prepared to play “better than a 2.4” on occasion to progress in their bracket, which is nonsense. They should have to play better than a majority of 1.4 to leave their bracket.
The second simply highlights ions take is false. A player playing like a moron isn’t a skill difference of 20%.
Current situation of low bracket is as many as 33% of games will have you facing off against at least one opponent whom has gear from a bracket above the one you’re in currently and this can range from them being 1 bracket higher or 3 brackets higher and this is because of how rampant boosting in PvP is but also because of people who do RBGs get placed in entry for arena despite the fact they have 2.4k gear from RBGs.
Ajd they don’t call climb. The 226 RbG heroes get stuck in the 1.6 territory. They’re not good enough to beat people with gear 10 ilevels below them, but they are good enough to bear people with gear 20 ilevels below them, so they hover in that area continually smashing down the rating of moderately skilled people looking to move up (whom are capable of beating an equally geared opponent but cannot beat someone is similar skill where they have an ilevel advantage) so they get stuck there as well.
If it were natural, the boosted 226 dude would fall back to the bottom but they never do, because as said, you have to be a moron to lose to people whom are that much worse geared than you.
I mean 200 ilevel is what? 28k health? I’m only 205 and my burst rotation as a HEALER can take off as much as 25k health within a few seconds and all I need to do is press a few buttons in a certain order. That’s it.
Give me 226 gear and I would be literally killing 200 people in a few seconds by pressing a few buttons without really having to time them as well. How can anyone claim that even if I sucked at the game, I’d drop back down? You literally have to suck so much, that you don’t even know how to press buttons to lose. Even the people who get boosted or rbg it up know how to do that, so they scourge the low levels because they can’t beat people where they do need to do “a bit more” but the little they do do is enough to kill low geared opponents without them standing much chance of fighting back.
Cause people will not be reward by their time and effort wasted so they will leave game.
So a 207 on 1.4 just need beat other player on 1.4 who have more gear, just because he is 226 don’t mean he is a 2.4 player (else he would be on 2.4), if he is on 1.4 he is 1.4.
if he is on 1.4 with 226 he plays like a complete moron who means anyone with basic knowledge and skill can easy beat him even if he have more gear.
thats why you say nonsense like comparing pure ST in prolonged fights as if it means a lot.
and say nothing about how important burst ST and burst AoE is in this game and how they determing whether class is considered deisrable or absolute trash not worth to be taken anywhere
if Ion has the same approach as you no wonder we had mages/boomkins rule this tier miles above other classes
also what i mean by this is why tunign of SD / PF has been such garbo that SD got what ? 10 separate nerf waves over last months ? - no wonder it has been - since game director havent completed even +2 on them.
and then such person talks about how tuning is ok and just git gud .
I edited my reply to include more detail. They have to be a LITERAL MORON to lose. As in “I don’t know how to press buttons” kind of idiot.
There are certain spells and setups from a 226 that can quite literally oneshot a 200 and they aren’t very difficult to do. Ele shaman stormkeeper LB burst is a good example. Even a moron can do that, so they beat the player with more skill because numbers.
As said in that reply, as a healer, at only 205, I can deal fairly big burst, certainly enough where I can delete a 184 geared player nearly instantly within a few clicks. You are vastly understating the situation in PvP. Tye addition of health and versa bonus makes it different. The gap between players gets bigger due to the bonus, causing situations where your versa gives you barely 1% extra damage against them, whilst their versa gives them a flat 20% dmg buff on you, and this isn’t factoring any other stats!
Example: say I got 25% versa.
Trink make bonus dmg 35%
DR is 12.5%
Opponent have 40% versa
Bonus makes theirs 56%
DR is 20%
I will deal 15% more damage to them, they deal 43.5% more damage to me. This is excluding all other differences in our gear and stats (this is literally versa) and this is roughly the difference in versa comparatively of a 200 and a 226.
Now throw in stamina difference and other stats. You start to see that the low gear player needs to be working probably 100% harder to win against the numbers or their opponent must be a complete vegetable.
Thank you for elaborating! I compared ST numbers because it’s the easiest and most basic number to compare without many other factors and I was talking about a raid setting. I don’t do much m+ so I usually talk about things from a raid pov, so you probably know more about m+ than I do
I don’t agree with boomkins ruling above others by miles though, their overall logs are heavily inflated by council.
Anyway, I asked what you meant about him having ilvl 226 from raiding without doing m+ because I don’t see how it has anything to do with the thread. We’re talking about damage differences between ilvls, so I don’t know what dungeon tuning has got to do with that.
I am not saying you are wrong btw, I have a lot of less than stellar thoughts about the interview or the state of the game in general, so it’s good to talk about it