` htt ps://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-sl-1/all/world/leaderboards
Scroll past few pages until you find compositions without boomkin. LOL.
I agree with you here is your proof
ion should fall on his sword and leave blizzard because this poor game was made on his watch and his orders and the buck stops with him go and go now or be damned forever
Yes,because I wouldnt make it a pile of crap
Again, I am talking from a raiding pov. I know boomkin burst is very strong currently 
He is saying anything that’s wrong?
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I have to admit I’m a bit confused as to what’s being discussed that pertains to Ion’s comment.
Strange thread.
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“Git gud scrublings” - Ion Gonnacostyas 
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i think theres to much pressure for them to reach past glory standards
Because his comment seems to be suggesting that the difference between gear numbers ain’t all that, but it’s still that causes boomkin A to be dealing nearly twice the dps of boomkin B, yet logs on the very subject would suggest that you get as much as over 70% more DPS from 20 ilevels, both being taken from top parses of the spec within their ilevel range.
To me, that means his “1 level is 1% difference” is false, unless you’re assuming a top parsing boomkin at 200ilevel is doing something massively different in terms of skill to the 226, which seems odd giving their logs for their ilevel are similarly high.
Also; PvP. Try telling the player who gets WTFKOed in two seconds by a similar player of their class in better gear that it is “skill” largely that causes them to eat the floor. The fact their opponent is chucking out numbers over twice their own (thanks to the versa bonus) is largely reflective of skill differences apparently. Despite the fact such a difference is observed by merely pressing a single button and nothing more.
It’s a ridiculously tone deaf comment, all the more so given he made it admitting “he hasn’t looked at data or anything”. It’s basically the equivalent of a guy here ranting about how EZ m+ is without having set foot in it or looked at it at all, but they “reckon” it can’t be hard because of stuff they believe about it.
Where are you getting those numbers from?
If you’re looking at the 200-202 bracket for mythic raiding then it’s not really a reliable source since there’s only 32 parses total.
It’s the only source we have though, we can’t look at the absence of evidence and conclude therefore it’s proof it’s not the case, when the picture we have at current suggests it may well be.
If nothing else it suggests maybe the data should be generated as opposed to just claiming “here’s how it is”, that’s fair surely?
Seems more fair to check HC logs for the 200 bracket?
Ilvl 200 balance druids on mythic bosses are probably people being boosted.
If you want to compared ilvl 200 to ilvl 226 it’s much better to look at heroic raid encounters. But you should also take the kill timers into account.
On Heroic Hungering there are balance druids with ilvl 200 doing 4-5k dps. So if people cannot do more than 2-3k it’s definitely a skill issue.
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The quote about 1% is about stats anyway, not about damage.
So yeah, if you look at someone's stats and gear, a 226 chest piece should have 26-30% more stamina and primary stat than an ilevel 200 chest piece, and that should be consistent across the rest of the gear.
My bad, I think Dhoobs mentioned it but yes, looking at logs in raid for stuff like HC would work somewhat albeit the encounter changes slightly to render it less objective.
PvE aside I maintain the reason his comment was tone deaf was because this thing of ilevel disparity has arguably been more brought up by pvpers (given Alts have to face off against high level people to progress directly) and his comment completely ignored the PvP angle.
I mean you (you not you literally) cannot seriously believe that 10 ilevels = 10% stat difference = 10% difference in success in a PvP encounter all things being equal? It is inflated way beyond the mere stat difference which is what people are talking about.
A guy in 150 gear has less than half the health of someone in 226 gear. That immediately blows up his take as 76 ilevels difference is bringing forth more than 100% health difference, now throw in versa bonus which favours the high gear target:
A guy in 150 gear will be lucky to have 15% versa, but let’s say yes. Plus trinkets. That’s 21% output bonus, 7.5% DR
226 guy has what, say 40% versa? That’s 56% bonus, 20% DR.
So the difference in versa alone renders one (226) target dealing 47.5% more damage to the (150) target.
Now, add the differences in primary into it, and other secondary, etc, which this versa bonus multiplies.
Now consider the different health pools as to how much damage is required to kill the other.
Not claiming the 150 guy should stand a chance, but what you have here is one guy requiring probably 4 times more ability uses to knock the other one down than vice versa. That is not a difference of 76%, his assumption is flawed and does not register the PvP situation.
This is completely ignorant and not considering all the other factors at play.
Almost all top players at this point are WAY beyond 200 item level. Just because rank 1 at that item level is rank 1 for it’s ilevel, doesn’t mean it’s played even remotely properly. People hovering at that item level are still far more casual players or alts. If any top boomkin went back to 200 item level at this point, they would most likely obliterate those logs, which is why looking at ilevel parses are just so silly.
Not to mention that lower ilevel players are often in lower ilevel groups, which results in FAR slower kill times in comparison to groups of 226 who are killing hungering in sub 4 mins on mythic for example, when many entry guilds are still over 6.
There are many other factors like this too (Lower item levels are most likely going to be more progression logs, whereas higher ilevel groups are going to be comfy farm kills, the list goes on).
You simply cannot compare the two like that. You absolutely don’t gain 70% damage from 20 item levels. Even contemplating this idea is just ridiculous.
Again, this is for PvE, which is exactly the context in which preach and ion were discussing.
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Ah yes… it’s only a skill? level difference between people in LFR gear VS mythic gear? What is that guy on?
The stat difference is massive. A mythic equiped person can multi solo kill groups of ilvl 200 people due to stat difference. Where as the LFR player can only tickle the mythic equiped person due to far inferior statage (regardless of skill level.)
You’re twisting what was said. They were comparing a difference of 20 ilvls, not LFR vs mythic. And they said that if a 200 ilvl character does multiple times less damage than a 220 ilvl character then it’s a matter of skill… which is true. They never said that the entire difference is ONLY skill. I never understood why you people feel compelled to twist the truth like this.
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This forum and players not recognising skill as a factor in the game
Name a more iconic duo
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Find it weird how the thread is mostly about PVP when the conversation was PvE.
It really should be relatively straight forward for someone to effectively hit a training dummy at say 197, 213 and say 225 item level and see what happens. “Multiples” of difference probably is a skill issue - but I think at 197 the average sustained DPS is something like 3.5-4k, rising to over 7k in 225~. So that 30ish item level is giving you around a 100% damage increase. Which seems alot “in general” - and far more than 1% per item level, which is what Ion seemed to be implying.
But yeah - its very much a proof by inspection. If you can do 4.5k sustained DPS at 190 item level and are only doing a bit over 6k at 225-230, then its much less of a jump. But I feel that’s not correct. Or you are on a class which really isn’t benefiting from more stats.