Is Cheat Death worth it if you don't really PvP?


(Bolotar) #1

I’m levelling a Rogue and don’t know what talent to go for 60. Cheat Death seems obvious, but I literally never die in PvE so I’m not sure. Maybe when I’m 120 it’ll make more sense?


#2

Leeching Poison is better for lvling.


#3

Cheat Death has saved me so many times in m+ and raiding. Always nice to survive a hit that would otherwise kill you. Happens to me sometimes :slight_smile:


#4

It’s totally worth it, since we haven’t relevant healing cds or bubbles like paladins, an extra life is really valuable while you are progressing in raid.


(Ishanku) #5

Lol, what? We have some of the highest personal utility in the game. If you actually need to rely on CD a lot you’re eating way too much avoidable damage.

CD is yet another layer of personal utility that can also be used to deal with some mechanics that would kill a lot of other classes. Evasion is still better for overall damage mitigation if you can line it up with specific mechanics tho.

That said, OP, just use Leeching Poison in the open world to keep yourself going a bit longer and switch to CD or Evasion for dungeons depending on what you prefer. Leeching Poison can be useful in dungeons and raids, but most of the time the other two talents are just flat out better.


(Vulrin) #6

Cheat death is default in PVE content of all kinds.


#7

I don’t use cheat death atm, i know mechanics, i can soak much with cloak of shadows, leeching poison is to go for me, especially in aoe scenarios when my dps stays at 35k. In M+ it is sometimes better to die than make your healer “oh sh!tt” paniced trying to top you while rest of group is dying. Priceless in raids though, esp. while progressing.


(Mojomane) #8

Imo that is probably the worst choice in that row tbh.

Cheat death is extremely good for basically every situation, be it M+ and all the 1shot mechanics that are present during trash or bosses (Not to mention stealing aggro from your tank because tricks is on CD), raids and al the 1shot mechanics that are present in pretty much every bossfight or PvP where you need to survive 1shot combos.

The feint talent is great if there is predictable damage (e.g. Mother Mythic when 15 people cross at the same time (but even then cheat death is great, preventing you from dying to the dmg AND being able to soak a laser so you can stun an add) or M+ bursting etc.).

12% leach sounds nice on paper, but that’s something that your healer should be able to provide or you need to buy some more health potions.


(Retierx) #9

cheat death is easily the best talent in pve, agreed. it saves you when you make a mistake. as a rogue you should basically never die when you play well, but it’s the misplays and surprise 1 shots that get you.

i remember talking to people about this back in legion where they argued that elusiveness was better, and sure it is, if you play perfectly. but let’s be real, we all make stupid mistakes, and especially when you’re playing a class that almost never dies when played right it’s just silly to not get that safeguard.

i never spec out of cheat death in pve unless i have a very good reason to do so.


(Nexintus) #10

Incidentally, no one ever takes cheat death in PvP


(Retierx) #11

not really true, it can be decent situationally. but yeah, in pvp you die anyway a decent amount of time, so it’s not as reliable as in pve. at the same time elusiveness is way better because you frequently take a medium amount of damage where it will save you.

in pve you often take your whole health bar or more all in one go, with little to nothing before and after.


(Nexintus) #12

May as well just use safeguard in pvp now


#13

From a PvE PoV:

Leeching Poison is good for Leveling and Solo Questing. It reduces downtime, and allows you to tank a bunch of mobs without having to worry too much about health. However, once you team up with a Healer, the usefulness of Leeching is less important. For Raid Finder and Random Dungeons, when you don’t know whether or not your Healers are up to the task, Leeching Poison will give you a constant health buffer, but you’ll also want to use your defensive abilities. It’s better to use CDs too much, than to try to save them for the perfect scenario, and die while waiting for it.

Cheat Death is great for Progression Raiding, and pushing high M+ keys. As it is a passive, it doesn’t require you to do anything, while still being a strong choice. Of course, it’s only useful if you might die, so as you learn encounters and know where and when to time your Cloak and Feint, that’s when Elusiveness will give more bang for your buck. Of course, Elusiveness is an active ability. Elusiveness offers more flexibility while increasing personal responsibility, so it’s kinda up to you.

TLDR: Cheat Death is good when you don’t want to actively focus on survivability. Elusiveness is potentially stronger, but it has a slight skillcap, to make the most out of it. For Group PvE content, when your Healers are doing their job, these two talents are pretty much equal. Leeching Poison works great for Leveling and Solo Play.


#14

Lets put this as simply as possible.

If you are dead, you cant dps anything.

Doesn’t matter how much you like the high numbers, if your not alive to actually do it.


#15

Ehhhhhhhhhh.

Elusiveness is the best when there’s predictable non-AoE damage incoming. It does nothing for situations in which the only damage affects multiple players in an AoE fashion… as feint reduces AoE damage the rogue takes by 50% as it’s base function. Elusiveness adds reducing ALL damage taken by the rogue by 30%. It can be good for things like Galvazzt soaking or Overseer Korgus Deadshot taking.

When levelling Leeching Poison is always the pick for me. Can also be good for M+ affixes like Bursting, or other affixes that do high group damage where the healer could maybe use some help. (Even then I still stick to Cheat Death.)
PvP go Elusiveness and use it when you don’t have cloak for magic or evasion for physical. It can be huge to take 30% off of a Greater Pyro or Chaos Bolt.
PvE Cheat Death is a good pick, especially in high-tuned content that is likely to one-shot with mechanics at the slightest mistake.

I really miss Recuperate from the Cata/MoP days. Was a good, reliable self-heal at the cost of a finisher. I think that would be a stronger talent choice than the vial upgrade or stealth passive heal for Outlaw/Subtlety.


(Mojomane) #16

Yes, that’s what i wrote.

If it is predictable damage, elusive is good.

But it won’t let you cheese mechanics as hard, as cheat death does.

Look at my example, Mother mythic, try running through a laser with elusive and then again with cheat death.

You can use that to stun an add that is about to cast.

Yes, you will take 30% less damage from people crossing, but if you survive it even without, it’s basically a wasted talent, while cheat death will always be a safe net with the capability to cheese mechanics.

Elusive will reduce the damage by 30%, i doubt you can heal for more in 2 ticks than the damage it prevents.

Cheat death prevents you from dieing from bursting, but only every 6 mins.

I don’t think you can soak several bullets in a higher key, you also have evasion to soak a bullet.

I haven’t played a high ToS key this season yet, but usually rotating and resetting stacks with cloak is all you need, and cheat death helps a lot on the first boss :wink: