Sounds look like whinig. But u can check all m+ dungeons recently done. Are there any mm hunter complete +25 dungeon in last 3 months ? Answer is: No. Even barely +24. Hunter is pure dps spec. But there is no logic in here. They give us a legendary bow i think it’s wothless think bec. 1 min. cd. and it’s not effect our dps not enough. Aoe silence is worthless thing. Blizz always nerfing hunter. Also there is a mage factor in game. People in pug taking almost 3 mage in m+ keystone also fire mage is top meta. Hunter got 3 dps spec. not even one of them close top 5 dps spec. Why even hunter class still exist in game. i don’t understand ? i want to ask this question. Why blizz didn’t delete hunter class ?
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Why do you care if Hunter is doing +24-25 keys? It’s not like you’re doing them anyway.
MM is blasting in +15 pug keys which is what matters for most players anyway. And it’s only going to get better next tier when we get the Legy bow and switches to Kyrian which means we don’t have to deal with Tanks pulling mobs out of our 2 min Wild Spirit.
Hunter is not a meta spec for top 0.1 % play, but MM is more than fine for regular +15 pug play. If you’re just a regular player (which you are) than there’s nothing to worry about.
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I mean if u want to get into pug keys ur class has to be meta in the highest of keys.
Hunters could by far be the best class in +15 pug keys and u would still get less invites than a spec which is meta in high keys.
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Well avoiding groups with brainless people who base their +15 group on the meta of high key pushing is properly a good thing. Fortunately there are A LOT of players who don’t think like that. And in the end, slowly building your m+ score is much more important than your spec. I have played a lot of Warlock this tier (which is definitely not a meta spec) and I have had no problem finding groups. And if I cant find a group I just make one myself. Easy.
Blizzard cant balance the game based on meta slaves. The high end M+ pushers will usually stick to only 5 specs. So the rest of the specs will automatically become off meta. There’s no sustainable solution to that “problem”.
I’m often inviting Hunters to my pugs purely because it’s a low risk investment. Even if it a bad player behind the computer screen they will most likely be able to perform at a decent level due to the simplicity of the class.
Yeah like above hunters blast in 15 keys. I’ve pugged hundreds, got KSM early in the season. I’ve never once been beaten by a fire mage/boom, and I’ve ran with hundreds of em. Granted they smash on coordinated bigger pulls, but you just don’t get that in pugs till very later in the season. Or very rarely a tank might pull 3+ packs, but there’s never any notice given for booms/fire to save CDs.
Alot of classes absolutely smash, but don’t quite make the meta for various reason. Hunters will always be screwed over by AoE cap until it’s lifted. Ele shammys are always screwed over by lack of defensives and never quite make it etc.
All I can say is that hunter is plenty viable for m+ up to +20, after like +18 enemies start to hurt a bit too much and our defensives are lacking a lot actually, which makes us a bad pick for higher keys where random casts can almost half your hp( say slimes in DOS before manastorm boss.
To be honest I wouldn’t even ask for more damage as a hunter, I would ask for more survivability.
Most people would rather play a key with brainless people who base their meta opinion on high pushers than sit in LFG, running circles in oribos and not be able to play the game for hours.
Running your own key is also a miserable experience which is why most people dont want to do it.
This might be better in 9.1 with the system changes though.
Why not? In a perfect world where all specs had the same amount of utility and dealt the same dmg u would see way more than 5 specs.
Now obviously its impossible to have a 100% balanced game but that is not an excuse to not balance your game because of it.
Feral dealing 40% less aoe and having virtually no group utility is just unacceptable.
Fire being by far the best spec in m+ for a year and a half is unacceptable.
There should be somewhat frequent balance changes to adress these issues evne if they are monthly/bimonthly but none of that is happening at all.
All balance changes are based on raiddps. And somehow they arnt even managing to balance raids properly.
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I mean I don’t remember last time when I lost in DPS to fire mage in a pug. Honestly I just don’t.
The only class which feels amazingly good is Ele shammy right now for me( as it beats me out in most scenarios, and boomies for boss burst and utility.
The rest are good but not compared to hunter. Even in raid I find it easier to log better as a hunter than mage
This is a big issue for hunter in M+ and Mythic raid yeah.
Mage and Boomkin are basically Tanks compared to us.
Limit max was saying he hated that MM was so useful in Nathria because they’re so bad at staying alive/mitigating damage they actually pressure the healers noticebly more and sometimes they’d just fall over because they’re out of defensives.
Even worse in raid since our turtle is usually pre-used to soak something, it’s barely a personal for us anymore (which I don’t mind, I like having a purpose in fights 
).
Exactly,sometimes in high keys or raid I know I have a soak incoming which means next place in combat will kill me unless healer pays extra attention to me and it is extra painful to know you rely fully on healer and it is out of my control.
Again, I have had no issue pugging on a Warlock this tier and it’s definitely not a meta spec. In my experience, your experience (aka. m+ score) matters much more than your spec/class.
Well someone has to do it. So it might as well be you. I agree that joining a full group is easier than making your own, but if everyone had that attitude then we would have no groups. In the end, every player has the responsibility for their own time in the game, so if players refuse to make their own groups then they are also responsible for them being miserable.
I agree. It’s just not realistic because even if balance was almost perfect there would still be a few specs being the meta. The M+ meta often comes down to a few %'s. A spec might be great for M+ but if another spec is better then it’s pushed out of the meta. MM hunter with Wild Spirit is not far off being meta, but it’s just beaten at the finish line by other specs. And all high key pushers gravitates towards the same few specs even if they are just a few %'s better than other specs. Also the main issue with Hunter and high keys is survivability. Hunters do not have a good toolkit to deal with the high incoming damage of +26 keys. In BFA BM hunters had to run the Avoidance corruption for high keys because otherwise they wouldn’t survive. But for +15 pugs this is not an issue. The criteria is very different.
I think the best example of a spec being really awesome but still not meta is WW monk. This spec is currently doing AMAZING damage in M+ and also have very good utility for dungeons. However, Rogue/Balance/Mage is just a bit better and therefore most of the high key pushers (25+) will go with those specs over WW monk. So even though WW monk is currently an amazing spec it’s still not a stable part of the high key meta. WW monk is miles better than Rogue for +15 pugs.
A good example of the difference between the high key push meta and the regular +15 pug is Prot Pala. This spec is arguably the worst tank for high key pushing but it’s an amazing spec for pugging +15 keys. It cannot survive the high damage of high keys but it has an amazing toolkit for pugging +15 keys. You can basically carry the pug as a prot pala in a way you cannot do with other tanks. So Prot Pala is an amazing example of why we shouldn’t always let the high key meta impact the regular +15 pug scene.
Binding Shot is still my all time favorite dungeon utility.
I mean obvioulsy m+ score matters more if ur way above the keylevel. But if ur actually trying to push the keys u are supposed to push and ur playing an offmeta class ull have way more trouble getting into keys than someone with a meta class. This also gets worse the higher the keys ur pugging.
I mean most people having that attitude is actually exactly the reason why meta classes have such an easy time to get into keys compared to nonmeta. A groupleader u can be as picky as u want since theres an infinite supply of people applying.
If there were more people making keys the supply of people would go down and people would pick whoever applies first to your group and looks semi decent.
But for that to happen running your key must stop feeling awful.
People actually do consider ww monk meta right now. Same with bear tank and ele actually.
The reason why the highest keys on live are mainly dh pala mage druid rogue is because gearing and learning new alts takes time. And the meta started changing with the 0.5 patch which was 2 months ago. Nobody can really be arsed to make an alt this late into a patch so people just play what they have. If u look at the great push for example Ele was actually more meta than rogue yet on live nobody really swapped to ele.
Most good ele,bear,ww main players also dont have serious teams since the meta changed so late in the patch. If there were frequent balance changes and not balance changes 6 month into a patch this probably wouldnt be the case.
But unfortunately its more likely that we wont get any more changes since the ones that happend for those specs to become meta were a fluke which only happend due to this is being a 0.5 patch.
I think we will see most top end teams run the same 5 classes/specs next tier also no matter how good the balance is because there will always be some classes/spec that have just a small advantage. So being mad that your class/spec is not a part of the top end meta is just pointless. And the community need to learn the difference between specs being good for +25 keys and specs being good for +15 keys. Because the criteria are completely different. Survivability is very important for high key pushing whereas +15 pugging mostly rely on the damage output of the class.
Next tier Rogue is most likely going to be a part of the top end meta, but for +15 pugging WW monk is going to be much superior to Rogue because of the damage pattern.
Also 9.0.5 went live March 9/10 so it’s closer to 4 months ago 
Feral druid with reasonable gear do great ST dps on bosses they are great and no group utility they have great group utility. immo do they lack AoE yes, same with Havoc Dh they are awesome in m+
Because bottomfeeding toads use extremely high keys to gage each class and judge who to invite and not to invite to their poxy 10+ keys 
dude, some ppl start playing, becomes good and get goals, only to find out all time wasted in the class/spec was for notihng, it wasnt meant for end game, if the game warned you every time you played your hunter that you played a bad class not meant for high end pushing that it would be fine. but its not fine to waste ppls time on a bad class not meant for content.
beside who are you to say are you goint to do this and that, i did 22s as bm season 1, i did very good for my spec, but im held back by a bad spec/class and also ilvl from Mythic raids. so this game. keep in mind this was as ALLIANCE AND PUGING IN A NON META SPEC. so pelase before u say what ppl can do or not please dont say any thing at all.
Mm hunters are ridiculous in pvp they oneshot everyone
nah they need to undo the dubel tap pvp nerf make it back to 100% in pvp then MM is good …
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