You base most of or arguments on the unproven assumption, that most social players did quit back during wotlk and the interpretation that an all time high is an indication of terrible game design. Your interpretation is not a prove and its just as likely to be influenced by other aspects like player numbers of game naturally dropping with time.
Before the RDF was introduced, the player numbers stagnated for more than a whole year and then slightly increased once RDF was released for another year, until cata dropped. There is literally no proof, not even an indication, that the RDF affected the number of subs in any negative way. Its fully up to speculation and this speculation, only focusing on one change, while disregarding any others, that, since the âcurve flattenedâ more than a year earlier, were more likely to have an influence.
I understand you dont like wotlk and its features, since you like the vanilla design and game pace more. However, there is literally no indication that the RDF had any negative influence on the player activity, besides speculation based on unprovable assumptions about the impact of social bounds of random players with no premades, that now have to click a button instead of copypasting âinv class ilvlâ to every possible guy in chat, before they are were able to play with other players.
I remember this as well. I stopped playing around the time of Ulduar and returned around the time of ICC. I remember playing with my old guild leader (who had been away from the game at the same time as I), a warrior tank, and how he played âold schoolâ; making sure we killed mobs that people had gotten used to skipping. I remember him getting criticism for this, and in his defense he said that he did not want to take any unnecessary risks.
So yeah, the game definitely changed too. The whole notion of âbring the player and not the classâ was the first stepping stone of the homogenisation of classes. Like the Dungeon Finder this had some obvious benefits, but something was lost. Something theyâve not yet managed to recapture in retail.
All these changes created a climate suitable for the Dungeon Finder. The Dungeon Finder likely would not have worked in TBC â because dungeons were harder and classes brought unique, game-altering utility. The downside to this we could witness in TBC Classic, what with spell cleave being a very popular combo for many dungeons.
However, while I view class homogenisation as something negative I donât see it as being as damaging as the Dungeon Finder. Unpopular opinion, but Cataclysm was pretty great at launch. Remember the âHeroics are Hardâ watercooler blog? If not I will try to provide a link later, but Cataclysm dungeons were originally fun and challenging. Because of that they required coordination and communication â which was a design that was incongruent with something suitable for five complete randoms in an environment where thereâs zero ramifications for poor social behaviour.
I remember that extremely well too. People say no, but they can say no as much as they want because the game DID change around the time they introduced Dungeon finder. It went from carefully pulling mobs to pew pew. Well suited for dungeon groups. And also kicking players from group started. Dungeon finder changed the game in a hugely negative way.
As I said, I did not do dungeons as yet when patch 3.3.0 hit. The differences were deeply felt in Questing too. And I suspect all these changes of working together towards the ruining of the âspiritâ of the game.
If anything I suspect the OP-ness of everybody to be more harmful than RDF because you could now handle most of what the world (outside of dungeons and raids) threw your way.
You live in a complete bubble my dude. Thatâs not how vast majority of players join a guild. You look the guild ad up on discord, find one where the raid days fit you, contact an officer, he checks your logs and talks to you about your goals and you either get trial or you donât.
It has absolutely nothing to do with 5 man dungeons.
In the olden days, you would go to a guild website/forum amd fill out an application for an officer to review. Which is now not really needed because your logs tell the truth, and an in game or discord chat shows if you are capable of communicating verbally.
Strange. Didnât happen to me back then and didnât happen to me now. Iâm pretty sure none of my guild mates did that. And an officer talking to you about your goals is also part of the social aspect. So⊠thanks for proving me right?
This has got to be the most depressing explanation of how to find a guild Iâve ever read. I have never joined a guild in that matter. It sounds like a literal work interview. I thought we were supposed to play games for fun.
This migth be the way itâs done in the hard-trying guilds.
I have mained a Human Paladin since November 06 (leaving a Warrior on Korâgall PvP behind) and suffering from altitis for almost as long, playing NE Hunter, Tauren Shaman or HUnter, Dwarven Priests ⊠only never any Undead
Only once did I ever fill in an application, and that was just a formailyty after having played a couple of dungeons with a guild group of 4 missing a tank.
Other times including: Saving the life of an Elven Pirest in Elwynn Forest - I could not join as it was an all elven guild, but my NE Hunter was welcomed in - later they slacked on the elven, and my Main joined too.
Other times I have just found Guild with a name tht spoke to me, whispered one form the Guild, sometimes bein re-directed to an officer with ability to inv. and had an invite.
Never have I experienced those job-interview like thing you describe.
Proving you right? I keep repeating, with others, that the social aspect of the game is in guilds, not in 5man random dungeons.
I guess we have very different goals in the game. I have been in a couple of guilds without rigorous application/interview process, and they were riddled with trash players with trash attitudes. It got to the point where I now donât even consider joining a guild where I donât have to apply, they donât try to vet me heavily and put me through at least a month of no loot trial period. Because I donât have time and patience to play with âhuman anchorâ players who didnât go through the same.
Once you do get in, that is when you find yourself in a social community of players that are worth your time to help them and socialise with.
Yes, things claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I dismiss your notion that less socialisation in RDF leads to less socialisation with guilds out of hand, since it needs no further dwelling on.
Edit: Maybe you did, if I take it in a certain way. But it sounds like youâre missing an important step. And my experience with this forum and this topic in particular tells me that means you didnât really get it.
You assume everyone on the server does as you say even if they donât know you.
If you tell all your contacts about a toxic player at least half of them wonât care. Or they will just agree with you, that the person was toxic, but they wonât go out of their way to tell others about that player or blacklist that player.
And even if they would talk their contacts about that player too, I can guarantee you not a single person will care about a toxic player somebody they donât know encountered in a dungeon.
You are either living in denial or you just intentionally make false claims to troll.
This explains a LOT!
So you want to ban all types of vehicles so people have to walk 20 miles to work every day? Is this what you are trying to say? Because than you are just a scumbag that pushes his own values on other people, that donât care about the same things as you.
And the end result still wonât be, that more people walk 20 miles to work, the result will be, that people rather not work at all, than finding a workplace 20 miles away.
Youâve never debunked anything. You just donât get the arguments of the others or you donât care, so you keep making the same nonsense claims that others actually already refuted multiple times by now.
You are living proof for the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Really? That might say more about you then about the RDF if thatâs the case. I sure as h*** donât feel any need to change my behavior simply because people are from other servers.
That I totally blame the human behind the screen for, not RDF.
Honestly, it canât have been that devastating if youâre still here playing the game almost 15 years later.
No. They think they do. But they donât.
See this:
As in, there were infact several other changes besides RDF that had a huge impact on gameplay. RDF alone did not ruin anything.
I certainly did fill out an application form on my old TBC guilds wesite, and got approved after a chat with an officer.
What we consider fun is obviously different from person to person. Back then I was a hardcore raider and I had a blast, although for some that would be considered a âworking scheduleâ.
Today, as a lowly casual, I have lots of fun in other aspects of the game. And what Vanillataur describes is what goes nowadays:
Yes, thatâs what I try to bring over
And as we will get 3.3.0 as Wrath Classic, it will already be semi-ruined.
I do not know why Iâm trying so hard to make people understand this, other than I like to side with the one getting bashed (here LFD).And Iâm not especially fond of LFD even
Unfortunately the anti-RDF crowd doesnât understand this. They are so full of themselves, that they think the way they play is the only right way and what they consider fun has to be fun for everyone. Thatâs why they think itâs ok to force their way of playing the game onto others.
They actually think they are doing something good.
They do indeed think so. For myself, I actually think this will be the startingpoint of a slow death for classic. Ending in only of a small bunch of these RDF hating âinv is socialâ mor⊠individuals still trying to play.
Well for me WotLK Classic is dead anyway. Even if Blizzard would change their mind about the RDF, they already announced some other chages I also donât like. So I donât even know why I am still posting here. I guess I just canât stand it if people make false claims.
All I wanted was for WotLK to get the same treatment that Vanilla and TBC got. With a version thatâs mostly true to the original and just brings some good features a little earlier than they were initially released.
