Alliance of convenience or not they were still subject of the Warchief because Horde used to have dictatorship form of governance. This is why it was a big deal why Talanji told that they’re joining as equals and not subjects. Talanji mainained power over her own people and she herself is not below Warchief.
That was not the case with Sylvanas and LTT. They had to do what Thrall/Garrosh/Vol’Jin ordered, because in Horde Warchief had ultimate authority.
Yeah I know it hurts my brain and heart to see fellow hordies that did nothing wrong being paraded in chains whose only cime was believing in the last horde character that was actually interesting to root for. Now it is all a stale snoozfest.
I wish Metzen was still in charge of the story. He wrote the bfa trailer and it was much better then the final product itself in the end. Very depressing.
then again why would he, the horde his father joined, is long gone, and the horde ever since garrosh took, over has more or less only given grief to the tauren, his father murdered, horde split twice, due to internal conflicts, what the alliance has to had to sort out, heck the alliance have almost at this point done more good for the tauren than the horde has, exept Camp taurajo offcourse.
An alliance of convenience is literally, a relationship in which two countries, political parties, or organisations work together for some shared purpose. With both keeping their own ruling bodies and being united solely for the sake of some alignment regarding their goals.
Which is, as far as lore goes, the very foundation that prefaced the inclusion of several Horde segments. Including Forsaken and BEs.
And now, the Zandalari.
Yeah, for the two former said premise was diluted throughout time, but the point remains: the current “independent” state the Zandalari were introduced with, isn’t unique to the factions history nor would i expect it to last given past examples.
Lore so far, as well as ingame mechanics, has shown us that said circumstance will inevitably tend to be either mute or tweaked, for the outlier to be treated as any other faction ally.
For good or ill, the Zandalari will end up being as much part of the Horde as any other race.
And the characters they contribute to the story, will be about as Horde as any other race from said faction.
I lament the fact that Blizzard felt the need to punish the side of the Horde story that could’ve contributed to have a different perspective, and create actual differentiation regarding the values that defined the faction.
You have no proof that this is how it worked. Both Sylvanas and LTT were still subservient to Warchief anf had to do what Warchief demanded. There was not any special agreement between them and Warchief that would treat them differently. You had years and years of evidence that simply proves you wrong.
And you had many examples already how Zandalari were behaving. They were not part of 8.2.5 and 8.3 events and in book Talanji pulled her forces from Horde support
We will see that, so far devs managed to maintain difference between the rest of the Horde and Zandalari.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKutw1zDgms
Convinced that the primitive races of the Horde can help them achieve victory over their enemies, the Forsaken have entered an alliance of convenience with the savage orcs and the proud tauren. Harboring no true loyalty for their new allies, they will go to any lengths to ensure their dark plans come to fruition.
And from them, derived the position BEs had within the Horde. As Sylvanas was all to willing to remind LTT:
http://media.blizzard.com/wow/lore/pdfdownload/leader-story/lorthemar-theron/lorthemar-theron-enUS.pdf
"For a while now my people have stood guard in these lands, and it is by my hand that you have any place within the Horde. You will aid us in Northrend, or I shall cease to aid you in Quel’Thalas."
[…]
“You heard her, Rommath,” Lor’themar interrupted. “We go to Northrend or we lose Forsaken support—and likely the rest of the Horde’s as well. So we go.” He turned to leave again.
Its rather clear Forsaken and BEs didn’t kickstart their relation with the Horde as in swearing absolute fealty to it’s leader. Which would be natural, given the cultural differences that marked them apart from Troll, orc or tauren mindset.
They had their ruling bodies, and only dealt with Horde affairs for as long as they either felt obliged to (BE), or had some additional interest in mind (Forsaken).
The ultimatum given by the Zandalari about them keeping their own ruling system, is in no way different to the one the Forsaken initially had, that had them tagging along the Horde for as long as it worked on their favour. Or much like BEs under LTT, that came into the fold because they incurred into a life debt with Sylvanas and the Forsaken.
Much like LTT tried to do, and would’ve done, regarding the war against Malygos? Like the Forsaken did with the onslaught in Northrend, when they sent their own forces independently from the rest of the faction ones?
I’ll repeat, that all this story about some “rebel” faction member that plays its own game, i’ve already seen it in several other Horde races. Yeah, the Zandalari aren’t the first one that enter pumping their chest proclaiming how independent they are.
But still, given ingame mechanics, writers plots, and an overall need to encase each race under a blue or red banner, those postures have never lasted.
There won’t be a third faction. And the Zandalari are about as “independent” as the Forsaken, or BEs thought they were, when both were first introduced.
Zandalari aren’t part of the Horde, it was rammed in game multiple times.
Forsaken went to Northrend with Thrall’s approval this is what the Pre-WotLK event was about. In the end it was Thrall’s decision to make all Horde go to the Northrend.
In the very same expansion Sylvanas still went to Thrall to ask him for aid, and in expansion later she had to follow Garrosh orders. And in MoP you had Sylvanas “I won’t take orders from a troll” meaning she was taking orders from previous Warchiefs.
The forsaken intro changed nothing. Sylvanas was still subservient to Warchief. This is how this faction works.
And LTT even in BfA askedtoappointnext Warchief, meaning he was looking fornext ultimate authority. Belves were still used by Garrosh as cannon fodder and moved to do various tasks.
Ofc any sub faction can have their own thing going on, but they’re still under Warchief’s command. Or were - because in BfA this title was abolished. I don’t know how it will work later.
As for LTT- he tried to jump the ship back in MoP but then he would turn himself and the rest of belves to be traitors and Garrosh would definitely react to it, so Vol’Jin was his only chance at getting scott free from responsibilities to Warchief.
They’re the first one to state that they’re equal, that Talanji is not under Warchief. Sylvanas and LTT were.
As i said - we will see, so far I was quite content how this independency was handled.
The threads premise parts on whether Talanji will be considered part of the Horde’s future.
And regarding the Zandalari “not being actual Horde members as of now”, i pointed out the fact that they are not the first to start their relation with the faction from a standpoint that has them being independent from the rest.
Being “Allied but not part of it” is the same stance Forsaken and BEs started on.
And after a few expansions, gameplay restrictions, and writer plots…that didn’t last long.
It couldn’t. Writers cannot give any race a preferential treatment over the rest, regardless of their background.
And that makes them inevitably end up writing every race in the same way.
The Forsaken went to Northrend creating their own faction that had interests aligned with the rest of the Horde because they had a similar agenda, and wanted Arthas to die for their own reasons:
There is a reason why the Horde forces splintered into two major groups that converged at the Wrathgate. The rest of the Horde fought as one force in the:
Sure. That would mean that given time, the relation changed and the story drove the Forsaken and BEs to be the same as every other race in WoW.
That doesn’t erase the fact that when they were first introduced, they were sold as independent groups that worked alongside the rest of the Horde simply because of an alliance of convenience.
And neither considered themselves part of the faction.
Much like is currently happening with the Zandalari.
The introduction for the Forsaken race also states they are working with the Horde, but they are not loyal to it or its leaders.
And the same can be said about BEs, which given the short story, didn’t consider themselves even part of it, and had to be strongarmed into putting on a facade of allegiance by Sylvanas herself.
Wel…if any other example ingame serves as precedent, and once we acknowledge meta reasons such as Blizzard never going into a split story, that gives any race the preferential treatment of feeling above/beyond others…i’d say that it won’t last.
Best case scenario, they’ll repeat the Forsaken/BE case. And we’ll have the Zandalari boasting about their own agenda, while following behind the rest of the faction regardless.
Worst case? Well…we also get the Forsaken/BE case. But the latest one: when they are changed and tweaked to fit in with the mindset of the rest of the faction.
By the end of Shadowlands all your leaders are going to be holding hands while wearing daisy chains in their hair chanting friendship is magic.
no she is a mary sue character, rastakhan was much more interesting because he had character flaws.
is being incompetent a character flaw now ?
In a leader… it kinda is. Apart from that, I guess the flaw that meant to have led to his incompetence is his resistance to change and new information.
imagine posting about Horde cancer on a vulpera toon.
i think this is a good thing for the horde. it is time for them to be the good guys for a change rather than the genocide-pereptrators, and the Baine friendship club is a step in the right direction. soon the disgusting fox person leader will be there also, then the horde can be all sympathetic and relatable while the alliance starts doing genocides under the leadership of genn, tyrande and moira
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