The patch there using is 2.4.3, as announced in one of the interviews. As with classic that means the’ll use that itemization. However they also announced they wouldn’t nerf the bosses as well.
Blizzard are not going to give themself extra work to spllit the itemization and the rest of the build in different patches, nor are they going to do progressive itemization.
Sound about right. You need a feral tank for the BM hunter group though.
You will probably see war or rogue only as MT or officer / GM. Chasing the glaives like TF in Classic.
No it’s going to be
3 tanks
5 main healers + 1 offspec
shadow, boomie, elemental
3 locks
2+ hunter
2+mage
enhance, ret, arms, fury, combat
And you have 2 free spots for whatever you want. But hey goodluck getting your meme “perfect” raid setup in anything but a world first level guild. Also goodluck with all the disenchanted melee loot while your stacked classes cry as they fight over scraps.
Meanwhile in 2008, 4 Rogues on Illidan world first and 3 Rogues on KJ world first. But hey you can’t take Rogues because they are bad amiright? I’m sure you also feel you’re a better player than a world first player from back then ^^. I’m also sure you feel that the private servers are perfectly accurate and representative too, don’t tell me next you’re gonna use legacy logs to reinforce your point?
Fun stuff.
Lol just buy a boost and you can stack whatever you want 4head. Rogues with glaives are really good, mages had manaproblems until 2.4.
People thought that you could play ret paladin and shadow priest in classic aswell, yet most guilds, even casuals, didn’t bring any. Why do you think it will be different in tbc?
Loot drop increase in tbc and raid size go down. Tier tokens now aren’t bound to 1 class. All the melee loot will go to the 2 melees and the tanks, offspec etc. If you can play naxx with 8 warriors and 6 rogues (not even class stacking) and they have to “fight” over 4items I think you will be okey in tbc lol.
Any guild having the coordination to stack classes can and will run split raids with alts after the “progression” week in order to gear up their mains for the next tier.
Lol comparing Classic where classes specs are defined by being literally broken and unusable or literally broken overpowered doing multiple times the dps with TBC which has better class balance than Shadowlands.
Do you know why top guilds in 2007-2008 didn’t take an Arms Warrior for earlier progression? Because Arms dps is too poor in the lower tiers to make up for the 4% buff. You’re only taking an Arms Warrior in earlier progression for the pure sake of your personal logs, because you’d do more dps with a Fury Warrior for most of the entire expansion (especially since Fury is busted strong on a number of fights).
You’re taking a Feral dps to boost your hunters crit? Great, they are one of the weakest specs ST in the game, have no cleave, no AOE, but great your hunters get an extra 5% crit without needing the feral tank in the group.
You realise that the perfect comp changes on every boss? Your meme rigid comp is so low resolution, and your viewpoint seems to extend about as far as “lol teh hunter and warlock does teh dps”. Let me guess your raid comp is based on you playing either lock or hunter and then figuring out what raid comp gives you the best logs?
Why would anyone discuss raid comp on the basis of split-raiding content that is not only easy, but is easily defeated with a really, really bad comp? Why would you ever discuss this topic on the basis that you’re going to be raiding at a high end retail level of commitment?
I was in MAXIMA on Firemaw for a bit, my friends raided there (same guys I’m playing TBC/retail with), they were top 3 in world and not that hardcore, nowhere near as hardcore (or skilled) as a top retail guild. I’ve also played with the Progress guys, with Exander and his friends to be specific. And do you know what their average raid comp was on a naughty TBC realm? You can guess it wasn’t even close to this “classic andy” meme comp on any given night.
You know what raid comp you’re going to run in TBC? Whatever damn one you can put together based on what people are playing, based on what you can recruit. And you know what, so long as you’re even slightly thinking about group optimisation and you play well, the bosses won’t just die they will flop over like a wet pancake.
People need to stop pretending the content is even slightly hard, stop pretending they are world first raiders, and stop thinking about TBC from a Vanilla perspective, they couldn’t be more different.
Split raiding is not really that big of a commitment in TBC. You have a lot less raids that you want to farm every week, so it’s perfectly reasonable for guilds to have at least two raiding groups - even my guild will likely have two, and we’re not rly a world first guild or w/e. All you need is a significant portion of your guild with attuned and geared alts (the latter of which is much easier to do in TBC than in Vanilla due to the increased abundance of sidegrades/2nd best gear), and then you can split your mains between the two.
I’ve played for years on private servers, both TBC and WotLK, and in both expansions it was relatively common for guilds to do each raid twice (sometimes even thrice, in WotLK’s case) a week. Now, many of those guilds didn’t actually split raid (it was mostly a case of main raid vs alt raid), but that only goes to show that it’s not logistically unfeasible.
Don’t get me wrong, I never said you have to split raids to beat content or w/e. All I said is that the guilds that do run stacked raid comps with the intention of achieving server/world firsts or speedrun records can and will run split raids to feed their “main raid” for the speedrun attempts or the next phase’s race. But I definitely don’t expect them to be anything more than a small minority on the servers’ landscapes, as it should be. All the other guilds should definitely consider balancing their raid comps against loot distribution issues (not much in terms of tier tokens, as those drop like candies, but in terms of non-tier gear like weapons and especially trinkets)
Sure in T4 it’s not, but T5/6 are a much longer slog (especially with attunement). People have an extremely narrow view of the TBC raiding and class balance landscape, and it seems to me those people are in la la land of fairytales.
I don’t think we necessarily disagree on any points at all, but maybe we’re looking from different angles. I’ve raided in exactly 1 guild that did split raiding, in WOD and we were mostly doing it to gear up alts after progression to create a 2nd boost group so sell M Archimonde mount, the following guild I joined for Legion was top 100 and did not split raid or require alts, doing content 100x harder than TBC with classes that had much stronger defined strengths for the raid than TBC, while also rarely running an exact optimum comp.
I’m sure a world first level guild on TBC will split raid, and T4 split raiding will definitely be easy, because gruul/maggy is cleared in an hour. But understand the point I’m making with raid comps is that an optimised near perfect comp requires about 22 raid spots and is generally super flexible without much/any real compromise.
Class performance changes in every tier/phase, and some people are looking at raid comp like every boss is Brutallus in Sunwell gear.
T5 is not really that bad once you have it on farm. Naxx alone is significantly longer than TK and SSC combined. Though yeah, by T6 it gets a bit harder, but assuming all phases last more or less the same length, you’ll have a lot of time to gear up in T6 gear before SWP comes, which makes split raiding less necessary
Yeah, and the world first KT and CThun had frost mages, which is a laughable prospect in today’s meta. You are correct that classes are clumped much closer together performance-wise in TBC as compared to Vanilla, so “raid comp” isn’t nearly as important. Yet at the same time we live in an age of meta, so even your average “semi-hardcore” raiding guild these days will adhere to “bring the class” and raid comps much more than world-firsters ever did in 2008.
The feral is tanking, the arms debuff is overall better then him being fury not giving anything to the raid. No I’m playing mage. As you can see since I post from my classic char.
Did you know that there are tbc pserver who have min/maxed out what the bet comp is?? Surprise it’s 4 hunters/4locks. Not 4 fury warriors xD xD
Fury doesn’t bring anything to the raid?
Battle Shout and Commanding shout are group wide (not raid wide)buffs which are brought in a weaker form by Prot Warrior, Prot Warrior also cannot bring Improved Demo Shout without gimping its spec heavily. Arms can but at the detriment to its already low dps. Fury also brings sunder and an interrupt, the best cleave dps in the game (which is passive and doesn’t diminish ST), 3rd best AOE spec, strong funnel dps on fights with low/medium hp adds and a strong execute.
What does the 2nd mage bring to the raid I might ask you? And talking about the 2nd Feral, the suggestion was a Feral dps not a 2nd Feral tank.
And nobody has min-maxed that the best comp is 4 hunter and 4 lock, the best comp is different for every boss and changes throughout the tiers as gear increases/decreases. The people who think that ideal comp is something static are monkeys who read something somewhere and parrot it to make them feel better about themselves as if they have a clue, worse when you’re talking about private servers when every damn private server in the last 10 years has pooped out different numbers, different bugs, different exploits in use.
They are like the noobs who copy a top players build or a top raids comp without understanding the reasons behind the decisions to begin with, these are just sheep players who never played anywhere close to the high end. As previously mentioned I’ve played with the top private server/classic players and among the best on retail and it never ceases to amaze me how people who have 0 clue are so confident.
Dude, the Brutallus speed kill at the end of TBC also stacked Rogues and their dps was incredible, and you can go look at private servers if you want and find plenty of rogue stacks doing the same. This dumb myth that Rogues are bad in TBC has come from people running T4 and seeing that big surprise Rogue does low dps when their best T4 offhand weapon is a lvl68 dungeon blue.
What’s worse is this “meta” or “theorycraft” based around buggy exploited and inaccurate TBC private servers (of which are years behind vanilla and wotlk development) full of meme strategies like summoning in shaman alts on 2nd accounts to bloodlust the pull before quickly switching out and abusing items/buffs that wouldn’t work on retail TBC. Then there is the way servers handle steady shot clipping, of which almost every server has done it wrong (and allowed higher dps than would be possible under blizzards servers).
Yawn. I bet you think ret pallys bring important things in classic aswell, hurdur they can heal if needed xD
This is about TBC, Rets provide provide blessings, 3% crit to the entire raid while also generating mana for the entire raid + 2% damage for the party.
Comparing Classic where all specs are broken in some way to TBC where everything is in balance and the difference between the “best spec” and worst spec on ST is smaller than it is on Shadowlands is the epitome of stupidity.
Please don’t attempt to do any form of running a guild or raid team in TBC, just stick to pressing shadow bolt and leave it to the people who have a clue!
3% physical crit. Atleast do the research.
And I’m a mage not a lock, as you can see on my avatar, I dot hide behind a retail alt.
No raid spot for you mate, TBC raids are on average almost as hard as Castle Nathria normal and the 2nd mage is just not worth taking amiright? Also it’s TBC, it’s Crit and Spell Crit, it’s not defined as physical crit so why would you call it that?
Was there any point we were confused?
Sry man, unlike you I don’t get boosted by progress gdkp. I have play with the same people since Nost, I always have a spot. GL playing melee, maybe you outdps the tank by sunwell.
Bout the crit, yes you said it increased the whole raids crit by 3%, I said physical cuz it’s only for the melee and hunters.
It does increase the whole raids crit by 3%, I get what you’re saying and like I said “was there a confusion?” In TBC Spell Crit is a different stat to Crit. Nevermind, you’ve been playing with the same people since Nost?
While Nost was running my guild on retail was the rank 2 speed clearing guild in the world, in TBC I was a top 20 ranking Fury Warrior on WWS logs (and in WOD I got 7 rank 1s in HFC and while active was between rank 1-3 allstar on Tarren Mill), on PServers I played with Exander and co. Some of the guys playing Classic TBC with me are ex Maxima-Firemaw raiders.
I see your posts and you come across like you have an extremely narrow view of TBC (so tell me if I’m mistaken?), like the whole expansion is a snapshot of Brutallus in Sunwell, while also trying to use comparisons to Classic Vanilla which is a different game with hilariously meme-worthy class balance.
TBC is balanced dude, you can run damn near anything you want and still be close enough to optimal, and you can roflstomp all the content without being close to optimal. The speed clear setups will vary from boss to boss, but only a tiny percentage of players give any form of crap about that sweatiness, stop approaching TBC as if it’s harder than Mythic Castle Nathria, when it’s as easy as Normal.
And to clear this up, Mages are incredible prior to Sunwell, you should be top on dps a lot. I was just busting your balls, I’d take 2+ every raid.
Edit : came across a bit aggressive maybe? Wasn’t the intention.